Learning to Dive Dry

[lexvil]

FWIW, my buoyancy improved greatly once I corralled most of the gas in the wing where it can't run around. Plus, excess suit gas tickles my back when it moves.

Try taking some weight off so there isn’t a need for the b/c, I’ve seen more improvement from getting a better fit with Seaskin than anything else, we all do our own diving so it comes down to finding what you like and going with it.

 

[Badger7]

I dump air from my wing and I sink like a rock.

"Like a rock" is relative, but I'm wondering if you will find you're a little overweighted currently? I've been diving all summer with a drysuit, steel single tank, steel backplate and 10 pounds of lead. I had done weight checks a few times earlier in the season, but I don't think I was paying enough attention to breath control WHILE I was doing the weight checks, and just stopped removing weight when I started going up a bit, probably with too much air in my lungs.

A couple weeks ago I again bled down an HP100 to 500psi, submerged to a 10 foot platform, fully exhaled and dumped all the air from my wing and just left enough air in my suit for an assuring hug, and then started slowly removing weight out of my pockets a couple pounds at a time. As I started running out of weight to drop, I started noticing how much easier it was to hold a stop with just breath control, even at a relatively shallow 8-10' depth. I was actually able to hold at 9 feet with no lead at all as long as I didn't completely fill my lungs. I popped a couple pounds back in a pocket and swam around a bit and found it quite liberating.

Now, over a dozen dives over the past couple weeks with just two pounds of lead, I'm feeling like:

At the start of a dive - initial descent is slow and peaceful, especially when descending horizontally. I do an initial pre-equalization at the surface and then exhale, as I need to breathe out to start the descent. Once at 5 feet, I can breath normally while continuing to descend, and would need to kick down to do anything I would consider close to "like a rock". On the way down I just add a little air to my suit to avoid squeeze, and then at the bottom of the initial descent 2-3 puffs of air into the wing achieves neutral buoyancy, and I fine tune with a just a little extra or less air in the suit over the first minute of bottom time.

During the dive - at around 2500 psi and again around 1500psi I need to cock my left hip up and dump a little gas from the wing to keep neutral. Its now just a couple times during the dive, I don't have to touch the wing inflator and dump nearly as much as I had previously. I found it helps to wriggle around a little after wards to distribute the gas back evenly to both sides of the wing.

At the end of the dive - almost no air left in the wing, I'm really starting to love this. It means I can start an ascent now just by taking a large full breath and slowly exhaling on the way up. It also means that the only gas left that needs to dumped during ascent is in my suit, so If I've got my hands full reeling in an smb and my suit shoulder dump is wide open I can just chicken wing my left arm up every 5 feet or so to keep the suit volume and buoyancy about the same the entire ascent, and then hold a stop by just doing a full exhale.

The above might not work the same for everyone, and its taken me about 50 dives to get anything close to comfortable managing the suit bubble, but I am really REALLY enjoying my dives much more now that I dropped some unneeded lead.

 

[grantmac]

I'm the sort who uses the wing for buoyancy and the suit for comfort with the exhaust completely open.

 

[inquis]

Try taking some weight off so there isn’t a need for the b/c

I appreciate the intent, but at my current weighting, there isn't a need for the BC at reserve pressure. Any less weight and I would need to be squeezed harder than is comfortable.

 

[lexvil]

I appreciate the intent, but at my current weighting, there isn't a need for the BC at reserve pressure. Any less weight and I would need to be squeezed harder than is comfortable.

So you don’t need to compensate for anything but the gas used, which is my point, for me it’s easier to have that gas in the suit since I’m adding or venting to the suit while adjusting for depth so I, for me, don’t want to add a second device into the mix.

 

[inquis]

So you don’t need to compensate for anything but the gas used, which is my point, for me it’s easier to have that gas in the suit since I’m adding or venting to the suit while adjusting for depth so I, for me, don’t want to add a second device into the mix.

Totally agree -- it's a pick your poison situation impacting primarily the beginning of the dive:

• Suit for buoyancy compensation: potential for 2.5-3.5L of gas migration to feet [con] (assuming single-tank), single button to press on descent [pro], venting during ascent is automatic if well oriented [pro] but relatively slow if you are late in orienting your vent [con] or impossible if you can't orient the vent; i.e., upside down [con], gas movement may tickle your back [con], righting yourself after intentionally going head-down is harder [con]
• Buoyancy compensator for buoyancy compensation: two buttons to press on descent (though not at the same time) [con], that 2.5-3.5L of gas stays relatively put with little impact to trim [pro], rapid venting during ascent is possible regardless of orientation [pro], you have to use a hand to initiate venting of the BC [con], no tickling [pro], returning to horizontal is easier [pro]

At the end of the dive at reserve pressure, your BC should be empty in either case, so ascent is fairly identical. If not at reserve pressure, see above.

OP, I suggest you give each approach an honest try and make an educated decision based on your own priorities. However, I will say that the additional negative buoyancy of doubles, stages, and possibly hefty wreck reels makes a more compelling case for using the BC. (If you have any inclination of going down the technical path, just use the wing to start with.)

 

[Thunder Struck]

Plus, excess suit gas tickles my back when it moves.

I always felt that was more of a wetsuit dive after having chili the night before phenomenon.

But put me in the camp of enough air to take squeeze off the suit and allow for proper loft of undergarments. Then use the BC for any additional buoyancy needs beyond lung control.

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah, I get rid of suit squeeze, of course, but much like diving in general, I don't remember what I do or how
I do remember buying my first neoprene drysuit it had No dump and my comprehensive course consisted of

"Just raise your arm mate and vent though your cuff!"

An instructor told me she used her suit for buoyancy, sounded plausible, but I can't remember what she said

 

[Thunder Struck]

Yeah, I get rid of suit squeeze, of course, but much like diving in general, I don't remember what I do or how
I do remember buying my first neoprene drysuit it had No dump and my comprehensive course consisted of

"Just raise your arm mate and vent though your cuff!"

An instructor told me she used her suit for buoyancy, sounded plausible, but I can't remember what she said

I think that was in the PADI drysuit material: to use your drysuit for buoyancy control.

I can see it from the standpoint of simplicity, having one gas bubble to manage. But, for a comfort and safety standpoint, leaving the buoyancy to the BCD makes it easy to dump air and not have a large gas bubble moving around on you. Having to put yourself in a head down feet up position to look under ledges and such takes some attentiveness in a drysuit, and becomes annoying when you have more gas in it than needed.

 

[Litefoot]

I’d like to quote each one of your very helpful posts and highlight each tidbit that was helpful.

With my inexperiemce, I really like the utter simplicity proposed by @lexvil of managing most everything with the suit. But I also like the idea of easier management of the air bubble and quicker response of the wing.

Other things I noticed: The shoulder and waist d-rings were either too high or too far back after adjusting for the dry suit. Everything was hard to access. Even though I have broad shoulder, the straps ride kind of differently with the Quick Neck system. The inflator hose valve rides right next to the shoulder dump valve making it hard to distinguish things. Maybe DIR location of the shoulder dump may have been better.

Anyway, the water is warm enough (68 F) that I can go without gloves until I get better at locating everything by touch. I was damp after the dive, but only wore a base layer, so I’m assuming it was sweat.

Can’t thank you guys enough. My dive buddy and I have been joined by another and they’re both kind of focused on spearfishing. So your help is appreciated.