DIR- Generic Learning Doubles (in Wetsuit?)

[PfcAJ]

Another consideration is that someone may not notice that a thread is in the DIR forum, having found the thread using the "New posts" feature, and with good intentions post a reply that is off-topic only because the thread is in the DIR forum.

Oh for sure. That’s cool, no worries there. But the continued antagonism gets old. Especially after it’s been called to their attention.

 

[mariosx]

Can we just have “kick out” instead of opt in?

I’m (personally) happy to have folks who aren’t dir ask Qs about why and how, and opt in is a barrier to that.

But we also need to boot folks who are just trolling.

"Kick out" policy indeed looks like a more simple solution to apply. Given that the participation here is not extremely high.

----
The "opt-in" policy might be more sustainable in the long run. As a moderator in a generic relatively large forum in the early 2010s, at some point we had a similar issue with a subforum where being licensed while answering questions and discussing was practically a legal requirement (if a wrong answer was given by a non-licensed individual the forum might get into trouble). We tried almost any solution imaginable to regulate the forum properly for the best of the community and the people asking questions. I hope I am not the only one that can see the parallels here.

The way that seemed to the best at the time and worked well, was to have an "opt-in" policy for the subforum. More specifically:

1. ONLY members of the subforum could reply to any post.
2. Everything was publicly available.
3. Every user of the forum (whether or not member of the subforum) could start a thread
4. If not a member, only OPs could reply in their own threads.
5. Other users could start other more specific threads if the given answers in another thread did not cover fully their question by linking them.

As a side effect, at least when it came to outsiders, the organization of the subforum overall seemed to improve and the threads become progressively less and less generic. Of course we had issues with dublicates, which is common anyway, but they were addressed fast by the most experienced members.

Not sure what the mods think about such a model.

 

[jale]

@jale, you raised an interesting point. Despite the risk of going OT, could you outline quickly the differences between Hogartian, DIR and GUE ?

Hi Angelo.
Ginti gave an answer to that but for me, if I badly compare to religion, I would say that Hogart is the philosophy, DIR the religion and GUE the sect.

 

[PfcAJ]

@jale, you raised an interesting point. Despite the risk of going OT, could you outline quickly the differences between Hogartian, DIR and GUE ?

Hogarthian - the gear

DIR - the methods

GUE - the instruction

 

[Ayisha]

Another consideration is that someone may not notice that a thread is in the DIR forum, having found the thread using the "New posts" feature, and with good intentions post a reply that is off-topic only because the thread is in the DIR forum.

There are messages in old threads that come up that say something to the effect that the thread is old and likely doesn't need a reply. Maybe this forum could have a message reminding would-be posters that it is the DIR forum and a troll-free zone?

We're skirting around the issue, though, that the offending posts aren't one time events, ceasing once the posters are aware of what forum they're posting in. They repeatedly post non-DIR compliant information even when others are seeking DIR/agency specific information, and it goes on and on in thread after thread, clearly trolling.

 

[jale]

Hogarthian is a way to configure equipment; according to this approach, the equipment must be as streamlined and minimalist as possible. To give you an idea, the back-mount equipment configuration used by GUE, UTD and ISE divers is a Hogarthian setup.

DIR is a philosophy of diving; at least three agencies are promoting it: GUE, UTD, and ISE.

GUE is an agency and an NGO focusing on diving education, conservationism, exploration, and citizen science projects.

Wikipedia gives some interesting (but not exhaustive) information about them:

William Hogarth Main - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Doing It Right (scuba diving) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global Underwater Explorers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EDIT: check also this link:

Backplate and wing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An NGO agency "focusing on [...] conservationism" being involved in the Dubai pool...sure

 

[jale]

There are messages in old threads that come up that say something to the effect that the thread is old and likely doesn't need a reply. Maybe this forum could have a message reminding would-be posters that it is the DIR forum and a troll-free zone?

We're skirting around the issue, though, that the offending posts aren't one time events, ceasing once the posters are aware of what forum they're posting in. They repeatedly post non-DIR compliant information even when others are seeking DIR/agency specific information, and it goes on and on in thread after thread, clearly trolling.

Agree there are sometime a lot of "noise" but in order to be considered DIR or not it should be good to know what are the tenets.
Some people may be answering thinking their answer is within the "philosophy". How do people can be sure that their answer is DIR or not?

 

[ginti]

An NGO agency "focusing on [...] conservationism" being involved in the Dubai pool...sure

Ah come on... many GUE's senior people are working on Dubai's stuff, they're good divers and they had the possibility to make money out of it, where is the issue?

That doesn't mean at all that GUE's focus is that one. GUE Italian community, for instance, focus really a lot on cave and wrecks exploration, and none of the GUE Italian senior staff (Mario Arena and Andrea Marassich) are involved in that project. Look at Phreatic and Egadi's project, for instance.

Not to say that 90% (or more?) of GUE divers have never been to Dubai, but still participate in projects all over the world (I can mention projects going on in Spain, Belgium, Italy, the US, Portugal, and I am sure that if I think about it I will come up with many more states)

Just to end it, GUE is NOT an official partner of Deep Dive Dubai.

 

[jale]

Ah come on... many GUE's senior people are working on Dubai's stuff, they're good divers and they had the possibility to make money out of it, where is the issue?

That doesn't mean at all that GUE's focus is that one. GUE Italian community, for instance, focus really a lot on cave and wrecks exploration, and none of the GUE Italian senior staff (Mario Arena and Andrea Marassich) are involved in that project. Look at Phreatic and Egadi's project, for instance.

Not to say that 90% (or more?) of GUE divers have never been to Dubai, but still participate in projects all over the world (I can mention projects going on in Spain, Belgium, Italy, the US, Portugal, and I am sure that if I think about it I will come up with many more states)

Just to end it, GUE is NOT an official partner of Deep Dive Dubai.

The issue is ... ethics maybe

 

[ginti]

The issue is ... ethics maybe

It is out of context here for three reasons:
(1) only some people of GUE are involved, so you cannot blame the organization itself (it's like saying that all the people on scuba-board aren't really divers only because some of them are trolls);
(2) even those few who are working in Dubai (of the board, only Jablonski and Lundgren as far as I know, which is just two out of eight), are doing it outside of the organization, so the ethics that you are naming have something to do with their personal behaviour, not with the organization;
(3) the organization itself is actively continuing its efforts in conservationism, scientific projects and exploration without any link with that activity.