DIR- Generic Learning Doubles (in Wetsuit?)

[ginti]

The problem is that a lot of divers post in the DIR section when they should post in the Hogarthian's.
So if people post "non-DIR" answers it is just because the question is not only DIR specific even if it posted in the DIR section.

Valid in general, but not in this case. The question was specific about learning doubles for GUE fundamentals. Being it DIR or not (I personally hate that word ) doesn't matter in this case. GUE has a precise approach: learning the basics with the end goal in mind. And the end goal is deep tech and penetration cave diving. Any comment that does not take this into account is just bul**hit.

And regarding DIR, I have the feeling there is a tendency to put GUE as the quintessence of DIR which, of course, it is not

Nah... it's just the "more mainstream" of the three-letters agencies, which is why it comes more often. And again, in this case (and in many others) the OP was asking specifically about GUE, which is why we were discussing it.

Actually, GUE is trying to stay as far as possible from the idea of DIR (in my opinion, for very good reasons; there is no one right way to do things - that acronym is quite arrogant).

Wow, looks like I am becoming anal and having a moment of "wait, someone is in wrong on the Internet"moment

It's the internet, where else can we have so much fun?

 

[ginti]

@jale, you raised an interesting point. Despite the risk of going OT, could you outline quickly the differences between Hogartian, DIR and GUE ?

Hogarthian is a way to configure equipment; according to this approach, the equipment must be as streamlined and minimalist as possible. To give you an idea, the back-mount equipment configuration used by GUE, UTD and ISE divers is a Hogarthian setup.

DIR is a philosophy of diving; at least three agencies are promoting it: GUE, UTD, and ISE.

GUE is an agency and an NGO focusing on diving education, conservationism, exploration, and citizen science projects.

Wikipedia gives some interesting (but not exhaustive) information about them:

William Hogarth Main - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Doing It Right (scuba diving) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global Underwater Explorers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EDIT: check also this link:

Backplate and wing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Celt]

So not neutral at the end with empty tanks. What a great way to be when you’re holding a deco stop.

More bad advice. At least we can all see guys like you coming a mile away with your nonsense.

Your not understanding what I’m saying or you’re so narrow minded you’re refusing to understand. I’m not giving advice to the OP he’s made his decision. I’m simply saying 14mm of hard neoprene doesn’t have a large buoyancy shift and doesn’t crush at depth. Diving heavy twins in wet and semi-dry requires you to be only very slightly heavy on the surface in order to hold a stop between 10 and 15 feet. I understand you don’t have the experience to visualise this but its a different system than your used to. Divers swam up and down and a half jackknife dive was needed to take you off the surface. This is how I dived for 20 years. Today you press a button for up and another for down like an elevator no need to swim. Deco stops were done on a stage.

 

[PfcAJ]

Your not understanding what I’m saying or you’re so narrow minded you’re refusing to understand. I’m not giving advice to the OP he’s made his decision. I’m simply saying 14mm of hard neoprene doesn’t have a large buoyancy shift and doesn’t crush at depth. Diving heavy twins in wet and semi-dry requires you to be only very slightly heavy on the surface in order to hold a stop between 10 and 15 feet. I understand you don’t have the experience to visualise this but its a different system than your used to. Divers swam up and down and a half jackknife dive was needed to take you off the surface. This is how I dived for 20 years. Today you press a button for up and another for down like an elevator no need to swim. Deco stops were done on a stage.

You’re willfully leaving out a critical variable: the weight of the gas in the tanks.

Being able to “hold a stop” while holding onto a rope (see above pic) is trash.

If you have to jackknife at the start of the dive, then you’ll be severely underweight when the tanks are empty.

Doing deco stops on a stage or not is irrelevant.

You’re acting like your methods that were done out of necessity 40plus years ago are good because you did them for a long time. They aren’t.

 

[Celt]

You’re willfully leaving out a critical variable: the weight of the gas in the tanks.

Being able to “hold a stop” while holding onto a rope (see above pic) is trash.

If you have to jackknife at the start of the dive, then you’ll be severely underweight when the tanks are empty.

Doing deco stops on a stage or not is irrelevant.

You’re acting like your methods that were done out of necessity 40plus years ago are good because you did them for a long time. They aren’t.

I’m leaving out nothing, I clearly said you need to be slightly heavy on the surface to hold a stop between 10 and 15 feet, (slightly positive on the surface at the end of the dive). the photo was taken from a fixed deco station in a knot of tide which I thought was pretty obvious from the exhaust, I’m not advocating any system. I’m saying the buoyancy shift in 14mm of hard neoprene is not what people imagine. All dives in a wet or semi dry were started with a jackknife head first.

 

[Manatee Diver]

We really need to return the DIR forum so it isn't completely open.

I don't post here much specifically because it is the DIR forum, and I'm not a 100% DIR diver. I do like a lot of the mindset, but you know sidemount...

 

[johndiver999]

Double steel tanks that are not heavy, thick wetsuits that don't compress, nearly weightless air and discussion of a whole host of practices and configurations that are not DIR.

It is surprising how rigidly some forums are moderated (e.g., a simple mention of possessing a political opinion causes an uproar), while other comments that pertain directly to diving, and ostensibly are in direct conflict with the DIR principals, are allowed to drift off into fantasy land.

No skin off my nose; I'm not DIR, but it sure seems confusing.

 

[Lorenzoid]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Due to some reports from this thread, the moderator team is considering whether to reinstate the opt-in requirement for the DIR forum.

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[PfcAJ]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Due to some reports from this thread, the moderator team is considering whether to reinstate the opt-in requirement for the DIR forum.

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Can we just have “kick out” instead of opt in?

I’m (personally) happy to have folks who aren’t dir ask Qs about why and how, and opt in is a barrier to that.

But we also need to boot folks who are just trolling.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Can we just have “kick out” instead of opt in?

I’m (personally) happy to have folks who aren’t dir ask Qs about why and how, and opt in is a barrier to that.

But we also need to boot folks who are just trolling.

Another consideration is that someone may not notice that a thread is in the DIR forum, having found the thread using the "New posts" feature, and with good intentions post a reply that is off-topic only because the thread is in the DIR forum.