Learning DIR or DIW at Casino Point?

[MHK]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...


What??? you mean it was better than ours....<sniffle>...oh wait...this is like saying I'm taller than an "umpa lumpa"



at any rate, I'm glad the class went well, was this the class that you and Brando taught together...or is that this coming weekend?

Brandon and I taught the class this past weekend in Catalina and we'll also be co-teaching again this upcoming weekend in the Chicago area [ Haight quarry]..

You know I need the frequent flyer miles ;-)

Later

 

[Big-t-2538]

MHK once bubbled...

Brandon and I taught the class this past weekend in Catalina and we'll also be co-teaching again this upcoming weekend in the Chicago area [ Haight quarry]..

so the answer was yes and yes....no more, no less was needed

<o.k....so I have my big wooden spoon out today and it is doing a lot of stirring....:tease:>

and you better rack up lots of those miles if you're going to be treating on that cayman trip one day...:haha: <see...I'm still stirring>

 

[ElectricZombie]

MHK once bubbled...

Furthermore as we are talking about "protocols" do you believe that an instructor should cut our line that we laid out because his students couldn't stay off teh bottom and "may" get entangled?? Do you believe that an instructor should cut our lift bag deployment line because his student may get entangled??? Both of these events happened to our class this weekend and both were instructors from a different agency..

Funny.....some moron did the exact same thing when I took my DIR-F class. It ended up creating a real entanglement hazard...

 

[pasley]

I will confess to having on occassion felt a triffle impatient with the classes at Casino Point stairs. not understanding why classes insist on occuping the stairs while they don their equipment.

The issue is not students or other divers putting on their fins at the bottom of the stairs (personally I push off and get about 10 feet or so from the stairs before putting on my fins in the water, thus clearing the stairs for others, but hey that is me), it is the divers (students and otherwise) putting on all the other stuff and all but suiting up there. I have stood in full gear and waited while divers put their snorkel on, mask on, adjusted their weight belt, did the buddy check, doned their gloves, stowed their octopus etc.

Now we were all new divers once and that's ok. But hey, instruors out there (and other divers), how about a little help here by putting on everything except the fins and doing your buddy checks BEFORE you go to the stairs.

The stairs should be for divers ready to dive and all they need to do is walk down, time their entrance and enter the water.

Just my $0.02 worth, which my wife says is about $0.01 more than I got.

 

[Otter]

to be lost on all but a few.....

 

[MHK]

drbill once bubbled...
MHK-

Going down the "wrong" side is not always bad... if there are no divers waiting to get out. The diver in this case went down to the bottom step, butting in front of the two instructors (with not even an "excuse me") and stood there putting his gear on despite the fact there were about a dozen dive students right at the stairs waiting to get out. That was inexcusable and suggested a total lack of awareness of his surroundings, or a total arrogance (again, as an individual not as a DIR class member).

Dr. Bill

Dr. Bill,

While I appreciate the concessions in terms of your initial response, and frankly I have no desire to beat a dead horse, I think one or two words that speak to your response above is in order. By conceding the point that going down the "wrong" side isn't always bad, you acknowledge that many do in fact do that. As anyone that has been to Casino Point can very well attest to, it is an oft practice event. That being said, your supposition that it is one of arrogance and inexusability to do so without awareness of the surrounding pre-suposses that everyone is knowingly aware that there is a "right" side and a "wrong" side. We've already agreed that there is no directional signs, and we've already agreed that it happens quit a bit. Moreover, my point is that I think it was grossly unfair of you to selectively denounce the one-time event by a "DIR" diver when you very well know that it happens all the time.. Notwithstanding the foregoing, I would still offer that I strongly suspect that, if in fact, the event occured it was an error caused by lack of knowledge, not by any intentional "arrogance" as you suggest.. Furthermore, I think in all fairness if you are going to single out one diver in one class as "arrogant" then in the elemental interest of fairness you should disclose that it happens all the time and it happens from every agency.. My feeling is that you over reacted and caused yourself a serious credibility problem due to the selective and disproportionate response since I strongly suspect there are vastly more occurances of this via "other" agencies then there is via GUE and I've yet to see you start a seperate thread to highlight the "arrogance" of any other agency. With all due respect it seems to me that you are pre-disposed to a particular point of view and your bias showed from your thread starting post..

However, I once again wish to reiterate that we want to cause no interuption to any other class and, if in fact we did so, it was unintentional and we apologize for any inconvience..

Later

 

[Dyno Bill]

I have done a ton of dives at the Casino divers park, you know prior to steps and the like. I have never heard the chatter as is here posted on this board. I guess I never had the pleasure of diving with the articulate politically correct group that must be the occupants of the park these days. We just used to jump off a rock and go diving, followed by day old spaghetti and a couple of beers. Diving used to be soooooo much fun.
Bill

 

[Arnaud]

Dyno Bill once bubbled...
I have done a ton of dives at the Casino divers park, you know prior to steps and the like. I have never heard the chatter as is here posted on this board. I guess I never had the pleasure of diving with the articulate politically correct group that must be the occupants of the park these days. We just used to jump off a rock and go diving, followed by day old spaghetti and a couple of beers. Diving used to be soooooo much fun.
Bill

Well, the day old spaghetti are still around. So is the beer...

The rest is plain old respect for others. I believe both MHK and DrBill made their point. How about retiring the thread and move on?

 

[drbill]

MHK-

I didn't respond to yours re: the instructor(s) who cut your lines on the bottom. That is appaling and inexcusable. I'm sorry to hear that happened and sorry I didn't comment on it initially when you mentioned it. I feel quite certain it was not the instructors I referred to.

I think the point I'm making is being missed. Yes, going down the wrong side (there is, by the way, a sign posted to that effect right at the stairs) was NOT the major problem here. I will also speak to the Harbor Master about getting the arrows painted or otherwise indicated on the steps.

The problem was butting in front of the two instructors on the bottom stair without asking their permission, and blocking their students from exiting on the side they were supposed to use. THAT is the problem that I used the word "arrogance" for, not simply going down the wrong side. BIG difference IMHO.

It is a matter of showing others common courtesy which this diver most certainly did not do. This diver was absolutely wrong... but was acting by himself and not directly with the class.

As one who was new to diving myself (albeit 41 years ago), I recognize the fact that new students are going to exhibit potential discomfort or take additional time on the steps. I try to time my entries between classes, or just wait. I also try to let stragglers cut in front of me so they can enter with the rest of their class.

Personally I find the landings at the stairs far easier than many people make it. I simply watch the waves/surge pattern, kick in towards the far right handrail with my left hand extended and my right hand trailing with my video camera. When I grasp the handrail, I turn 180 degrees and land on the bottom stair. I then walk up backwards to the second landing area before I take off my fins. That leaves the bottom stairs clear for others. It can be a bother, especially in surge, to have divers waiting on the bottom step to remove their gear.

All I expect at the Park (where I do hundreds of dives each year) is a bit of common courtesy from other divers (and I towards them). Unfortunately this seems to be lacking too often, and many of us who dive the park regularly (mainly instructors) notice these things.

One of my reasons for pointing out the group "involved" was that corrective action might be taken towards that diver.

Dr. Bill

 

[lragsac]

MHK once bubbled...


Dr. Bill,
...By conceding the point that going down the "wrong" side isn't always bad, you acknowledge that many do in fact do that. As anyone that has been to Casino Point can very well attest to, it is an oft practice event. That being said, your supposition that it is one of arrogance and inexusability to do so without awareness of the surrounding pre-suposses that everyone is knowingly aware that there is a "right" side and a "wrong" side. foregoing, I would still offer that I strongly suspect that, if in fact, the event occured it was an error caused by lack of knowledge, not by any intentional "arrogance" as you suggest...

I dunno, I think think common sense rules here. It doesn't take superior analytical skill to figure out that going ahead of someone or butting in line is going to be ill received in American culture. We've got that sense of fair play, and nearly anywhere you go (the grocery store, the bank, the gas station, etc.) this holds true. I've gone down the "wrong" side, once. But, the right hand side of the stairs was backed up with classes nearly to the top. And I did it ONLY b/c there was no one exiting or getting ready to exit, and I knew from the time I hit the bottom step I could be in the water in about 20 sec. and not disturb anyone or delay anyone in either getting into or out of the water. Lack of knowledge...probably not. Said individual just got a little frustrated and decided to be one of the oblivious people on that day...more likely. Anyone could have done it, DIR or not, and I think Dr. Bill has more than made that clear.