LDS Disillusionment

[yknot]

Jesus.. Mike is telling you guys how the system works and you are hanging sh*t on him for it?

I've never met Mike, never set foot in his store and never dived with him (hell, I don't even live in the same country). But from reading his posts on this board and others for the last few years, I do know that he knows his stuff. I'd take a class from him and/or dive with him any day - And when he talks, I listen.

Most of you guys have no experience running a dive shop. But sh*t, I guess everyone is an expert on the internet.

A large part of the frustration stems from a perception (at least by some) that the manufacturers and distributors are EVIL and that we should pity the poor LDS owners for being caught between a sales agreement and an uninformed demanding dive consumer base. First, no one forced the LDS' into signing those agreements and they have to shoulder some of the blame. Second, business is tough all over, not just in the dive industry. If I wasn't struggling for my own career in the face of third world cheap labor maybe I wouldn't be so cost concience. My customers have been hammering us about prices and this "world market" junk so long I'm starting to believe it and apply it to other areas of my life, like at LDS's.

The other part of the LDS's BS I don't get applies to the lines of gear that do allow online sales. I have two types of LDS's to choose from in my area. One type has a major product line, like Aqualung or ScubaPro. These lines appear to not like to be sold next to each other, BTW, which does limit choice, but in both cases they don't allow internet or mail order sales. The second type of LDS has no major line but instead has an array of smaller gear lines. Some of these products do allow internet sales with warranties but invariably when I look at the product in the shop it's priced like it's the last one on earth. Of course I had to "waste" someone's time looking- the product was locked up in a glass case with the price tag turned over so I couldn't see it otherwise. Why should I support or pity these business practices?

 

[The Kraken]

Yknot wrote:

"Of course I had to "waste" someone's time looking- the product was locked up in a glass case with the price tag turned over so I couldn't see it otherwise."


Hey, Yknot,
When a dive shop does that I just assume it's not for sale so I don't ask !!!

 

[yknot]

Yknot wrote:

"Of course I had to "waste" someone's time looking- the product was locked up in a glass case with the price tag turned over so I couldn't see it otherwise."


Hey, Yknot,
When a dive shop does that I just assume it's not for sale so I don't ask !!!

I also won't buy from an internet source that reads "Call for price".

 

[TCDiver1]

Of course I had to "waste" someone's time looking- the product was locked up in a glass case with the price tag turned over so I couldn't see it otherwise. Why should I support or pity these business practices?

No one is saying you have to support practices like that ... at least i'm not. I'm saying, step up to the plate and be honest about your intentions.

Tell the LDS your shopping for the best price on the item and are curious what they want for it. If they choose to not deal with you, because you are getting pricing elsewhere, that is their choice. You've been honest about your intentions, which is a good thing isn't it?

Besides, if the LDS wasn't there, for better or worse, where would you put your hands on the product before you bought it? You wouldn't.

 

[outlawaggie]

Tell the LDS your shopping for the best price on the item and are curious what they want for it. If they choose to not deal with you, because you are getting pricing elsewhere, that is their choice. You've been honest about your intentions, which is a good thing isn't it?

Isn't it pretty much a given that ANY consumer is shopping for the best price??

 

[Vengro]

Most of you guys have no experience running a dive shop. But sh*t, I guess everyone is an expert on the internet.

At the same time, I never gave him advice on how to run a dive shop either, especially since he obviously does not have one anymore, so that'd just be silly.

From a bystander's viewpoint on this particular thread and no other, as the thread and discussion continued along, his posts seemed to get more and more jaded. Start from the beginning and read to the end. Just that. That's all I did, and that's how I got my viewpoint about Mike. Simply from that. I'm not stereotyping him or telling him how to run his shop. I'm just not sure if I would listen to someone who beretted me for joining the boards because I'm a newbie and obviously don't know anything because I didn't go to his dive store...which doesn't exist anymore.

Being honest is always a good thing to practice, and so is doing your own research on the side, so you're not completely unprepared when you walk in through the shop door.

 

[yknot]

No one is saying you have to support practices like that ... at least i'm not. I'm saying, step up to the plate and be honest about your intentions.

Tell the LDS your shopping for the best price on the item and are curious what they want for it. If they choose to not deal with you, because you are getting pricing elsewhere, that is their choice. You've been honest about your intentions, which is a good thing isn't it?

Besides, if the LDS wasn't there, for better or worse, where would you put your hands on the product before you bought it? You wouldn't.

Usually, I have done the majority of my research either on line or have discussed choices with some of my fellow divers before I visit the LDS. When I walk in I'm ready to buy and really just want to talk price. As far as having a physical object to look at, what about the times when I have a specific item in mind that the LDS doesn't stock? I bought a dry suit for which I was willing to take all responsibility. I knew it would be custom cut and was willing to assume the risk for any bad measurements (I had the manufacturer's form and did my own measurements anyway). I was also willing to pay for the suit prior to it being ordered. The LDS' didn't have to do anything except lick a stamp. The going rate for stamp licking in my neighborhood is about $600-even after I showed them what the suit went for elsewhere. All I ask is for some consideration and honesty myself- don't tell me you CAN'T match the price, followed by a tirade about how I can't get air online, just tell me you don't want to. At least that way I won't hesitate to walk in the shop the next time I want something.

 

[FreeFloat]

Next thing some one will say that they paid to get their dry suit O2 clean to dive nitrox. LOL

Priceless! LOL :rofl:

 

[TCDiver1]

All I ask is for some consideration and honesty myself- don't tell me you CAN'T match the price, followed by a tirade about how I can't get air online, just tell me you don't want to. At least that way I won't hesitate to walk in the shop the next time I want something.

LOL ... look yknot, i feel your pain, i really do. I've likely been dealing with the LDS mentality much longer than you. No doubt, its bad business what you are talking about.

All i'm saying is, good business is a two way street. IMO, both customer and LDS have a part to play in making that happen.

Personally i don't see a problem with a business telling a customer they can't match a price. Its their business, not the customers. IMO the problem comes into play with the tirade that follows. That is rarely, if ever, the right move to make as a business. We are in full agreement there.

 

[redacted]

No one is saying you have to support practices like that ... at least i'm not. I'm saying, step up to the plate and be honest about your intentions.

Tell the LDS your shopping for the best price on the item and are curious what they want for it. If they choose to not deal with you, because you are getting pricing elsewhere, that is their choice. You've been honest about your intentions, which is a good thing isn't it?

Besides, if the LDS wasn't there, for better or worse, where would you put your hands on the product before you bought it? You wouldn't.

Total honesty and disclosure in the conduct of competetive business! Might work if you are selling the cure for cancer or buying a stick of gum, but it sounds a bit risky for most stuff in between. Anybody ever walk in to an LDS that had the LP catalog on the counter? Buyers and sellers are in opposition. They may play nice and work things out, but it is an adversarial relationship until the deal is struck. The more you know about your adversary that can help you in the negotiations and the less he knows about you that can help him, the better. What do you think would happen if all divers realized that LDS's are more like car dealers than Walmart when it comes to price negotiations?