LDS Disillusionment

[yknot]

I do understand where you're coming from, though. I understand why you would choose the internet over the LDS. I'm just nitpicking your choice of example.

How about a more precise comparison. I recently looked at some internet sites that sell Suunto watches and wrist computers. One of these sites even had an offer for a Suunto Stinger (with a price listed), which is a dive computer. Further, under the warranty area of the web site, they claim to be an authorized Suunto dealer and are claiming full factory warranties and support for these products. There is even a link to Suunto's US web page, which itself has more than a dozen links to online retailers. This is interesting because there appear to be a lot of competitive brands for these other Suunto products, also all available online. With Suunto dive computers and gauges, however, they are exclusively rep'd and distributed (in the US) by Aqualung. Aqualung forbids their dealers from online sales of warrantied products. This has been claimed as "fact" by many past posts and has been said to be a part of the Aqualung/dealer agreement also. Why, as divers instead of hikers, do we get the shaft? How about because the manufacturers and dealers have conspired together to deny us a competitive market. The original poster seemed concerned that the LDS owner migh be upset because he sought a better price on a product. Personally, I'm upset and offended that the LDS's is trying to prevent me from enjoying the sport of diving thru restrictive pricing practices.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So far, I've learned that either divers are for their LDS or they're against it. Your arguments have swayed me in neither direction,

I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. I'm simply telling you how the system works. Unlike you I do have experience with dive shops...lots of them...and I owned one...and I have experience with lots of manufacturers too...oh...not to mention the agencies. Unlike you, I know what's in the dealer agreements that your dive shop signed and what he spent on his fill station and what he spends on insurance. I know how he has to kiss the manufacturers butt, sometimes at your expence, in order to stay in business.

This is not cynical...it's pretty much just fact.

although if I had gone to a shop for the first time and you were the owner, I'm not sure how much further I would have gone in diving afterwards.

Well, I'm not sure where that comment came from but I'll tell you this. If you had come to my shop you would likely be able to stay off the bottom way better than I'm willing to bet you can because I tried my damdest to not let manufacturers and cheap competition force me into turning my dive school into a useless certification mill trading certifications for gear sales like 98% of the others. You wouldn't have hoses hanging all over in unsightly snag hazard loops and you'd be able to kick your feet without digging trenches trenches in the bottom. Provided you didn't have an attitude that got in the way you'd probably be a very successful diver like so many of my other former students are and you wouldn't get taken for a ride everytime you walked into a dive shop. You sure wouldn't be on here trying to figure out how this all works.

 

[RonFrank]

from the LDS after they advised me that it wasn't "safe" to buy equipment from the Internet. Now a month later, I learned about LP, and it didn't take long to discover that I would have saved over 1000 dollars had I purchased from LP instead of the LDS.
.

I guess the first question I have is why were you told it's not *SAFE* to purchase online.

I just joined, and don't have any experience with dive shops. I DO however have a ton of experience purchasing camera gear (and a LOT of other STUFF) online, and via local dealers.

My research indicates that dive gear, like camera gear will NOT generally be backed by the manufacture UNLESS the seller is an authorized dealer. So, purchasing gear WITH full warranty is not a function of online, vs. local, but rather who you purchase from. I have *learned* this because it seems many here post and believe that online dealers can NOT offer full warranty. That is simply not true, at all.

I have watched many small businesses fail in recent years. I've also watched many co-workers get walked through the door as companies reduce their workforce. So while I'm all in favor of supporting local business, I also have to watch my spending.

It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!!!

Ron

 

[redacted]

I do understand where you're coming from, though. I understand why you would choose the internet over the LDS. I'm just nitpicking your choice of example.

Actually, I always give my LDS a try first. If he can't compete, he tells me to get it from the internet. No hard feeling & no punative pricing. Air is still $4.00 for everybody.

But you should also understand that dealer prep is, for the most part, unnecessary and if it is part of the bill, you are probably being taken advantage of. The same tools that I use to work on my cars, are the basic tools I use to work on my regulators. However, if you are not mechanically inclined, it is best to find a tech/mechanic you can trust.

 

[Whitelightnin]

This analogy is completely relevant. If you go into a Chevy dealer, tell the salesman you want to look at Corvettes. Ask anything you want or imply whatever you can about how you are going to drive the car and see if you can get him to tell you that you really should be looking at a Porsche. The same holds true at the LDS. They aren't imparting mountains of wisdom, simply trying to sell you what they carry, not what's best for you and your goals. In all the times I've been in a lot of different LDS's, I've overheard more bad advise and outright BS than good advise. I've also NEVER heard a diver told that he should seek a brand the store doesn't have or told that the type of diving they want to do requires training unavailable thru that store. By throwing in all of that "free" advice as to how to use stuff (their brand of whatever), they make you feel like a valued friend instead of a customer. It's amazing on how "expert" some of these people portray themselves as. I recently heard a LDS owner go on and on about what a great piece of gear the Seaquest Fusion BC's are because they eliminate the "issue" of an inflator hose. Am I missing something here? Can someone be so full of BS this time and right about everything else?

Then you haven't been in my shop. I regularly recomend online sales to my customers who need (want) something that I can't afford to carry. By that. I mean that there is a minimun order (from that supplier) & I only need the one.

EXAMPLE; Pelican has a light that sells for $50.00. My minimum order OF THAT LIGHT is 6. If I ordered 6, I would sell the one to that customer & the other 5 would set on my shelves fur the next 10 years.

I recomended LP. I can't afford to have all my capital tied up in merchandise that does not sell.


As far as being a "Mountain of Information", I'm probally not.
But, I have dove enough to find out a few things. I can call on my experience to help with a certain question. There will be other shop owners that have had more experance in that area that may recomend something different. I tell the customer that & that if they are not comfortable with something I recomend, DON'T BUY IT. Do more research.

I can't recomend gear for cave divers because I don't cave dive. I would send them somewhere else where they could get the help they need.



James

 

[MikeFerrara]

They said that a lot of the times when you buy things from the internet, they have to be set up, and you need to have special equipment in order to set it up correctly.

See? There you go. if you had come into my dive shop you'd know better than this.

Maybe you could tell us exactly what special equipment it takes to assemble a new in-the-box-reg and get it ready to dive?

I'll give you a clue. Most people have almost everything they would need in their garage, the trunk of their car or maybe even in a kitchen drawer.

The only thing you might not have is a pressure gauge to measure the intermediate pressure which any one can buy and use. They can be set up to snap right on to a LP inflator hose. To use it you just look at the number under the needle.

I wouldn't dream of going on the road diving without one anyway.

 

[outlawaggie]

You know the more of your posts I read regarding LDS's vs. Online sales it seems to me that you ran a shop...didn't make it...blamed everyone from the consumer with stupid questions... to online shops...to the guys "stealing" your time, etc... when the problem was you. Like Vengro said, "if I had gone to a shop for the first time and you were the owner, I'm not sure how much further I would have gone in diving afterwards."

Please don't take this personally as I have never met you. This is just what comes off the more of your posts I read.

 

[outlawaggie]

James,
My compliments. You have obviously realized that online sales are a fact of life today. It has been said in this thread adapt or die...you obviously are adapting.

 

[Whitelightnin]

OK, you didn't like the car analogy. Something about saleman vs. owner which, in many DSs, are often one in the same. So let me try again. Can you really imagine you local Ford dealer blackballing you because you bought you new Ford from the dealer in the next town?

I have an example to give on this issue.

I have bought all my vehicles at the same dealership for the last 10 years. I have spent well over $500,000 there. When I went on vacation to Colorado Springs, I had a short in my battery cable & it MELTED. The local Chevy dealer didn't have the wiring harness in stock & said he would have to order it. I could RENT A CAR from him until it got in & mine was fixed.
Did he "blackball" me for buying my vehicles somewhere else? NO, he didn't. But at the same time, he didn't go overboard in trying to help me out.

I called my regular dealership & explained my situation. They got on the phone & got ahold of a local mechanic to come to the hotel I was staying at & rewire the car to get it running & last me until I got back home where they replaced the harness. How much did this cost me? NOTHING. They picked up the tab. Do you think I will ever buy a vehicle somewhere else? I don't think so.

That is GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE & is what I try to offer my customers. You can't get that online.

James

 

[redacted]

I have an example to give on this issue.

I have bought all my vehicles at the same dealership for the last 10 years. I have spent well over $500,000 there.

Wait a minute, I thought you said you had a dive shop!

In the last 10 years, I've bought 2 cars spending under 40k. Nobody knocks on my hotel door unless they have the wrong room.

You must really be doing something right. Is that shop located right next to your oil wells?