LDS Disillusionment

[yknot]

Why is the time a LDS owner or employee spends with you trying to sell you a piece of gear considered "service" by some? Are there other retailers that consider sales effort as service?

 

[Whitelightnin]

Why is the time a LDS owner or employee spends with you trying to sell you a piece of gear considered "service" by some? Are there other retailers that consider sales effort as service?

When a new diver walks into my shop & says he needs gear, usually, he has NO IDEA what he needs. If I just ask a few questions & then tell him he needs this & this & that, that is trying to sell him something.
If, on the other hand, I take 2 hours explaning the different features of the different models, how they affect the way he dives, why he is better off buying model "a" as opposed to model "B", how to take care of the different pieces of gear, what to be sure NOT to do to them, how often to have whatever needs done to them done, ect... then I am educating him & building his knowledge base.
That IS a service. That is something I can offer him that he doesn't get from LP. That is one of the things that helps build loyal customers. An informed customer UNDERSTANDS why he NEEDS such & such as opposed to just buying it because the shop owner said he needs it.

James

 

[ScubaMarc]

fashionablylate,
Was there any negoations?
Was this your first time looking at gear?
What did you get?

 

[bradb21]

I bought 100% of my gear for my wife and I from the internet (except 4 X 80CF tanks). I bought almost everything from LP, except my dry suits which came from Divetank.com

I'm 100% satisfied with all the gear I purchased, and I saved myself a dump truck load of money. Some of the biggest savings were on my two dive comps, BC's, drysuits, and wet suits. I guess I was very lucky on all the sizes I picked because everything fit and has worked great.

To be a successful internet buyer you need to be willing to do a lot of research, unless you already know exactly the brands and models of everything you want. Read mags, talk to people, research in these forums, research the manufactureres web sites.

I think it's great for some people who buy at a LDS who plan to keep their gear for a long time and maybe take advantage of the free servicing the LDS offer. To me that is really not that big of a deal. To make up for the difference in service costs from the amount I saved will take several years to pay back. That is great for someone who plans to keep their gear for a long time, but I see myself upgrading all my gear every ~3 yrs anyway.

That's my story and I'm sticky to it!

 

[fashionablylate]

fashionablylate,
Was there any negoations?
Was this your first time looking at gear?
What did you get?

No, there was no negotiation. I didn't know I was supposed to haggle, nor do I feel compelled to haggle in the future. Just give me a reasonable price, and I'll buy from you.
It was my first time looking at gear, and I really had no idea what I was looking at. When I talked to the salesman, I asked him this: Given the huge amount of equipment that's manufactured, and the limited inventory of the store, how do I know, as an uneducated consumer, that I'm getting decent equipment? His response: You buy what we have. We won't sell you a piece of s***.

The equipment:
Fins: Oceanic Vortex V12
Mask: Oceanic Xsite 2 and Cressi Big Eyes
Snorkel: Oceanic Sonora
Regulator: Cressi Ellipse Titanium
Octo: Cressi Ellipse
Computer: Oceanic Versa Pro w/ quick DC & Comp.
BC: Oceanic Chute 3
Wetsuit: ScubaMax 3/2mm and Oceanic Farallon 7mm
Drysuit: None yet, but hope to have Viking Pro 1000 Military by November
Boots: Bare hard-sole
Gloves: Bare 5mm gauntlet style
Hood: Oceanic, vent top
Tools: Cressi Orca and Oceanic Probe
Lights: UK D8, and C8, plus assorted glow sticks
Tanks: Two PST steel 120's on order.
Classes: Basic OW, Night Diving, Navigation, and IANTD Nitrox.

 

[Whitelightnin]

I would like to add my thoughts on LP.

There will always be divers to whom cost is the most important thing. There is nothing wrong with that. They buy from LP & I totally understand. I don't look down on them for that. I am content to work on their gear for them & whatever else they need. HOWEVER, it is only fair, in my opinion, that I charge them for my time. If their inflator is leaking, they have a choice. They can spend their money shipping it back to LP or they can pay me to fix it. When their tank needs hydroed, I will gladly send it off for them, then they can rent tanks from me when they need one until theirs gets back. I offer these services free to my regulars who buy their gear from me. This is an added value to them but I don't feel bad renting to someone who buys their gear somewhere else. This is a business for me & I don't take advantage of customers but I also TRY not to let them take advantage of me (too often )

James

 

[redacted]

I would like to add my thoughts on LP.

There will always be divers to whom cost is the most important thing. There is nothing wrong with that. They buy from LP & I totally understand. I don't look down on them for that. I am content to work on their gear for them & whatever else they need. HOWEVER, it is only fair, in my opinion, that I charge them for my time. If their inflator is leaking, they have a choice. They can spend their money shipping it back to LP or they can pay me to fix it. When their tank needs hydroed, I will gladly send it off for them, then they can rent tanks from me when they need one until theirs gets back. I offer these services free to my regulars who buy their gear from me. This is an added value to them but I don't feel bad renting to someone who buys their gear somewhere else. This is a business for me & I don't take advantage of customers but I also TRY not to let them take advantage of me (too often )

James

Seems to me that you have this right on. Charging for service and rentals is not punative, it's just good business and I'm sure your customers perceive it as that. Some customers want or need more service than other and you seem to be accomodating all of them. Hopfully, you are also finding your way into the internet side of this market. The more successful DS will adapt and prosper (OK, do reasonably well) in this changing market.

I have run into a few DS owners/managers/workers who brag about the punative measures they take with some customers. It's a shame that some of these shops continue to exist and take business away for the better shops.

 

[outlawaggie]

Why is the time a LDS owner or employee spends with you trying to sell you a piece of gear considered "service" by some? Are there other retailers that consider sales effort as service?

No kidding, it amazes me that so many people on this board feel that sharing their knowledge in an effort to sell gear is a service. By their logic if I go to my LOCAL chevy dealership and spend an hour going over the opinions, pricing etc of a new truck but we can't get there on the price, so.... then I go to the Nissan dealership and spend another hour but the price is what I want.....do I OWE the chevy dealer anything. Of course not, and I'd be willing to bet that EVERYONE on this board has done this albeit maybe with a car or computer or whatever. The bottom line is that knowledge is expected and needed as part of the sales effort. Sharing that knowledge is part of the SALE. It is NOT a condition of the sale.

I do support my LDS but I'm not going to throw away money to do so. I went in and explained the gear I wanted, listened to their advice, explained the pricing I could get from ScubaToys (a LDS if your in Dallas) They couldn't come close to the price. The reason I like my LDS is because they didn't care that I bought the gear elsewhere. Why??? because they realize that but treating me well I will probably spend the money I saved in their shop. Which I did on a trip to the Flower Gardens. I also go there for air fills, spare parts, etc. The shop makes money on all of these things. So in the end by treating me well they do get paid for their time and knowledge because they created a repeat customer.

By the way, IMHO the above applies to authorized online sites like ScubaToys.com and Scuba.com. Why buy from LP when these will match their price and give you a full manufacturers warranty.

 

[bradb21]

By the way, IMHO the above applies to authorized online sites like ScubaToys.com and Scuba.com. Why buy from LP when these will match their price and give you a full manufacturers warranty.

I've exchanged a couple pieces of gear with LP without any problems. So far I'm happy with the service I've gotten.

I don't see how these other shops could not be breaking their agreements with the manufacturers. I just read the agreement that Aqua Lung makes their authorized dealers sign, and it says they can not sell over the internet and have to deliver of the counter.

??

 

[outlawaggie]

I've exchanged a couple pieces of gear with LP without any problems. So far I'm happy with the service I've gotten.

I don't see how these other shops could not be breaking their agreements with the manufacturers. I just read the agreement that Aqua Lung makes their authorized dealers sign, and it says they can not sell over the internet and have to deliver of the counter.

??

ScubaToys etc. don't sell brands that prohibit online sales (like Aqua Lung) I have never used LP so I have nothing bad to say about them. I would just prefer a manufacturer's warranty for the same price.