LDS arbitrary tank fill rules.

[BRT]

We have a yearly Visual and 4 year Hydro. Al tanks are uncommon so we don't see many tanks with visual plus. I will look for tampering with the valve. I.E a tank valve that has been removed between official inspections. For the remainder I will look at the regulations as laid down by SANS19 that determine the guidelines on what is acceptable in terms or rust. If i am in doubt i will drop the boot and that will give me an indication as to how the tank has been looked after. Scuba is inherently dangerous and so is filling tanks, but in the same way that I try to become a better diver by participating in discussions and minimizing my risk, i also do the same when filling tanks. I just felt it was important here to express my view as a compressor operator. I don't discriminate on age come and stand beside me and have a chat whilst i fill your tank and there is likely to be no issue.

How do you tell if the valve has been removed?

 

[Keith.M]

I was getting ready to board a live-a-board when the crew came out to inspect all tanks that were being brought aboard. I had my HP100 with current hydro and VIS and my pony in hydro but no VIS (I fill it myself). The boat policy is that they will not fill a pony anyway. Captain told me I could not bring my pony on board because of the missing VIS. We discussed it a bit and he insisted that has long been their policy (it had not) and that it is industry standard. More discussion about industry standard to no avail. Their web site goes into great detail on their policies but said nothing to that effect. I started to gather my gear to put it back in my car and leave. The captain allowed as how it would be OK this time (and we had a good trip). I checked their website again at the beginning of the next season and, still finding no such written policy, made reservation for 3 of us. A couple weeks later that policy with a few other distasteful additions showed up on their website. We cancelled our trip. I figure it is at least $4k worth of business they lose per year; but their boat, their rules. It is not hard to find other places to spend it.

I find that interesting that for a $10.00 vis on a pony, that you and two others would cancel a trip with an op that you were now familiar with, and had a good trip.

 

[redacted]

I find that interesting that for a $10.00 vis on a pony, that you and two others would cancel a trip with an op that you were now familiar with, and had a good trip.

There were other factors involved. We had been having problems in previous years with crew (tank monkey and DM) claiming our tanks were not HP (they did not understand 232 bar), that they required a tank wrap and O2 clean (banked 32% and no wraps on boat AL80s). And they also decided that they would not fill private tanks for the first dive (new policy). I had no use for a tank full of 32% to take home with me. I thi9nk the op was really trying to force us to use their boat supplied AL80s. While I don't like wasting $20 on a VIS and fill for a pony I inspect and fill myself; I also don't care to have my HP100 O2 cleaned and wrapped unnecessarily. So the cost would be about another $100 per year. I guess I could have made up for that by just not leaving a tip.

But it is not so much the money as the escalating stupid. I don't like to reward stupid. Too many other "good trips" to be had. It really turned out better replacing this trip with an additional Caribbean trip for the last 2 years.

 

[Stoo]

With that rational, why would you ever fill a scuba tank?

Hydro's and VIPs are to tanks what tests for STDs are to people. They only mean the tank/person was "healthy" on the days the "subject" was tested. There are many things that can effect a tanks integrity between tests... sea-water infiltration, physical "trauma"... a dropped or dented AL bottle, a burnt tank (seen it twice... once in a garage fie and once in a campground... tanks stored near a campfire....

As Divescape says, it's his n*ts that are the first things in the shrapnel flightpath, so he has a bit of a vested interest...

I'm not a fan of "outing" businesses you don't like. If you don't like the policy, argue to have them change and if they won't, take your business elsewhere...

"Like Button Advocacy" can have a devastating effect on a small business, so I suggest you run your concept past a lawyer before you start posting. And be prepared to update it daily.. An outdated list is useless and harmful.

 

[flots am]

So, I'm wondering if I want to put out the $60 per bottle to have them visualed and hydro'd, if they don't pass the visual, most likely they won't be able to be repolished anyway... but the larger issue is paying the money to get them 'street legal' so to speak, and then not being able to get them filled anyway.

You can drain them and have a look inside before (if) you take them in.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

At first I thought this thread was a bit silly, but then I stopped by a local shop, Divers Direct.

I try to spread my business around multiple local shops and this one just happened to be the least out of the way that day. I've never liked that their fill station is in the back of the shop, but atleast they provide a small cart, which you can wind through the displays. I always knock something off and have to put it back, but they bank 32% and have a rewards program.

I take 4-6 tanks in about once every month, but this week was my last visit to the store, ever. Got all the way to the back and found a handwritten sign that now, all tanks for nitrox will require the "standard" band.

That's fine, there are several other local stores that will take my money and fill my tanks. I just am annoyed that I wasted my time with Divers Direct. I wish I'd read beforehand that they had this silly rule, so now I'm writing here. And just like that, this thread is no longer silly, but rather, quite useful.

 

[flots am]

Hydro's and VIPs are to tanks what tests for STDs are to people.

I'm stealing that. Hope you don't mind.

 

[Rich Keller]

I take 4-6 tanks in about once every month, but this week was my last visit to the store, ever. Got all the way to the back and found a handwritten sign that now, all tanks for nitrox will require the "standard" band.

That's fine, there are several other local stores that will take my money and fill my tanks. I just am annoyed that I wasted my time with Divers Direct. I wish I'd read beforehand that they had this silly rule, so now I'm writing here. And just like that, this thread is no longer silly, but rather, quite useful.

That was the main idea behind wanting to do this so you would know before you go to a shop. I saw it as being more useful for vacationing divers but it could be helpful to locals too. I never envisioned not having a nitrox sticker on your tank as being a problem but it fits the arbitrary rules idea I had in mind. I see few potential problems with putting together a fair list though. First is the diver who is unhappy with a LDS for another reason and wants them on the list to cause them trouble. I would try to confirm with the LDS in question to see if that is their real policy but I can see this type of diver as being an ongoing problem. Second is if this is to be a "know before you go" list should the people who will not fill 6351 tanks even though they have passed all the required tests be included? I am not interested in starting another pointless debate about 6351 tanks that will go on endlessly without any resolution. The list may seem silly until it is something that applies to you which would explain the slow response so far. Other then a couple of shops mentioned here I have only gotten one PM siting another LDS. The strength behind this industry is that it is self regulated by the people who are actually involved. Do you want to be involved in that self regulation or are you fine with just being regulated by others who may not have your best interests in mind when they make up these arbitrary rules?

 

[captain]

That was the main idea behind wanting to do this so you would know before you go to a shop. I saw it as being more useful for vacationing divers but it could be helpful to locals too. I never envisioned not having a nitrox sticker on your tank as being a problem but it fits the arbitrary rules idea I had in mind. I see few potential problems with putting together a fair list though. First is the diver who is unhappy with a LDS for another reason and wants them on the list to cause them trouble. I would try to confirm with the LDS in question to see if that is their real policy but I can see this type of diver as being an ongoing problem. Second is if this is to be a "know before you go" list should the people who will not fill 6351 tanks even though they have passed all the required tests be included? I am not interested in starting another pointless debate about 6351 tanks that will go on endlessly without any resolution. The list may seem silly until it is something that applies to you which would explain the slow response so far. Other then a couple of shops mentioned here I have only gotten one PM siting another LDS. The strength behind this industry is that it is self regulated by the people who are actually involved. Do you want to be involved in that self regulation or are you fine with just being regulated by others who may not have your best interests in mind when they make up these arbitrary rules?

This, the more divers let them get away with the arbitrary rules the more they will think of to increase their profit with no benefit to the diver. The world has more than enough stupid rules.

 

[Wookie]

I'll out myself. I won't fill 6351 cylinders. The new rules (2006, not so new) require that "The cylinder filler should allow only those individuals essential to the filling process to be in the vicinity of the cylinder during the filling process.". Since I fill on the back deck of a dive boat with folks milling about smartly, the only way I can meet the regulation is to keep everyone off the back deck during the filling process. That isn't going to happen, so I won't fill 6351 cylinders.