LCHF or Ketogenic Diet

[mcohen1021]

Bovine manure. Weight gain = calories in - calories burned. It ain't rocket science, it's simple arithmetics. Eat 200 kcal, burn 200 kcal and you're back to square 1. Eat a donut, run xxx km, and you're fine.

Problem is, you have to run a heck of a lot of kms to offset a box of donuts or an economy-sized bag of crisps.

If this were true, the vast majority of us would tip the scales at around 800 lbs.

Your body uses ketones for fuel. If you have excess ketones, you excrete them in your urine. That is what the test strips show. If you don't have any excess ketones, the test trips will show nothing. But, just because you don't have any excess ketones to piss away

does not mean that your body is not breaking down fat and using the ketones for fuel.

I don't think that is really correct, but I also think you didn't make a clear statement. If you eat 1000 calories of donuts, and that is all you eat, and you do a hard workout, you are going to burn more than 1000 calories that day. In that case, I believe you WILL lose weight.

But, when you say "nothing you can to to offset the donuts", perhaps the better way to say that is "there is nothing a workout can do to offset the damage done to your body, even if you burn the actual calories off and don't gain any weight." Because you will still have the blood sugar spikes (and crashes), the insulin spikes, and the gradual beatdown of your body's insulin sensitivity.

Yeah, I must be still in ketosis, just no excess ketones to be detected in the tests. Thanks for that reply.

My workout comment was a bit misstated. What I meant was that to offset the bad food you put in would taker far more exercise than you can do to offset it. Not saying it’s impossible, however, I am pretty cooked after 20 min on the spin bike. Every Krispy Kreme donut will cost you 30 min on the stationary bike… ~190 calories in, ~240 calories out. Good luck on that balls to the wall bike ride to offset a single donut lol

 

[mcohen1021]

I'm not sure how that really has a tangible benefit to my diving.

Less lead in your BC or weight belt is a huge tangible benefit. I was diving with 8# @ 198#, I wonder at 164# what I will need next month. I bet I could go with 6#.

 

[Storker]

I assume you do not dive Nitrox, either, as that is voodoo gas? And you believe that cigarettes are good for your health?

This is the reason I won't bother to reply further. It's been a while since I've seen a larger strawman.

 

[Mrs. B]

It's true. You said so yourself:



IOW, the brain needs carbs. Can't do without. That's what "obligatory" means.

*some* (see rabbit starvation)

also your gut and eyes need some for mucin production

 

[Mrs. B]

This is the reason I won't bother to reply further. It's been a while since I've seen a larger strawman.

People that stay on keto diet (pretty extreme) do eventually usually alter their microbiome in an unfavorable way as well.

This is all studied but there is a lot of human variation and now epigenetics has changed being able to give the absolutes you so love

We can observe transgenerational changes in things like coginitive abilty post famine too

 

[Mrs. B]

I'm not sure how that really has a tangible benefit to my diving. I have never had any kind of issue when diving that I think could have any relationship to a blood sugar crash.

On the other hand, if a KD really does provide significant reduction in the risk of OxTox, then that seems to me to be a very tangible benefit. Especially for myself, as a technical diver, where I might do a dive where I spend 30 minutes (or more) at the end breathing a mix that is feeding me a partial pressure of O2 of 1.6 ATM.

It seems like even more of a potential benefit to CCR divers, where one of their most significant risks is breathing a way-too-high partial pressure of oxygen, as a result of some kind of malfunction or operator error.

Well, you can go ten or twelve hours more easily when you are not a high carb eater, this has been studied by Voltec and Phinney (exercise tolerance etc) see cyclists eating keto or low carb

the advantage shows up in distance like long distance runs and races in certain athletes (but maybe not all)


SD Phinney, ES Horton, EAH Sims, Hanson JS. Capacity for moderate exercise in obese subjects after adaptation to a hypocaloric, ketogenic diet. Journal of Clinical Investigation 1980

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371554/pdf/jcinvest00695-0284.pdf

Comment. Until this study was published, it was universally understood (and taught) that a ketogenic diet was necessarily debilitating. Although our measurement of the exercise capacity of our subjects was confounded by their major weight loss, it was clear that whereas they were impaired after one week of the ketogenic diet, they then experienced a remarkable resurgence in performance by the 6th week of adaptation to the diet. In this study, we also discovered the need for a modest salt intake to counter-act the accelerated sodium losses caused by nutritional ketosis

JS Volek, AL Gómez, WJ Kraemer. Fasting and postprandial lipoprotein responses to a low-carbohydrate diet supplemented with n-3 fatty acids. Journal of the American College of Nutrition 2000.

http://www.jacn.org/content/19/3/383.full

Comment. Having read Steve’s research published 2 decades earlier; I was perplexed why such provocative work was essential ignored. This paper was my first published in the area of low carbohydrate diets and focused on blood lipoprotein responses in normal weight men with normal cholesterol levels. Prior research had shown that high levels of fat in the blood, especially after consumption of high fat meals (i.e., postprandial lipemia), significantly increased a person’s risk of heart disease. In this study we took repeated measures of blood fat (triglycerides) after subjects ingested a single high fat meal. We had them ingest the same high fat meal 6 weeks after consuming a ketogenic diet. Remarkably the serum triglyceride response to the meal was decreased by half after the ketogenic diet, demonstrating a profound improvement in metabolizing dietary fat. We subsequently replicated this hallmark postprandial reduction in blood fat response to carb restriction in separate experiments in normal-weight and overweight men and women.

 

[Mrs. B]

If you stay on keto too long the gut biota changes and the bacteria starts to eat the lining

I dont have time to find the studies but basically you need to feed the "good flora" diverse fibers of pre-biotics

I am a fan of lowish carb eating and keto for those that need to reverse metabolic syndrome or regain insulin sensitivity (also shown in research)

There is some evidence some people down-regulate T3, 4 staying ketogenic for long periods

 

[Mrs. B]

I'm not sure how that really has a tangible benefit to my diving. I have never had any kind of issue when diving that I think could have any relationship to a blood sugar crash.

On the other hand, if a KD really does provide significant reduction in the risk of OxTox, then that seems to me to be a very tangible benefit. Especially for myself, as a technical diver, where I might do a dive where I spend 30 minutes (or more) at the end breathing a mix that is feeding me a partial pressure of O2 of 1.6 ATM.

It seems like even more of a potential benefit to CCR divers, where one of their most significant risks is breathing a way-too-high partial pressure of oxygen, as a result of some kind of malfunction or operator error.

"as a diver" includes more people than you, and most Americans have metabolic derangement and even many tech divers are, as evidenced by their big middles

 

[Mrs. B]

Storker can eat his oatmeal and everything is hunky dory if you are lean and exercise enough.
Muscle mass sumps the glucose away. As people age, they have less muscle and are less insulin sensitive. Those people should probably eat keto periodically to regain insulin sensitivity, but eating about 50 Gms a day for most middle aged non diabetic people and then practice eating in the smaller window accomplishes the same thing without sacrificing the right gut biota.

 

[stuartv]

Less lead in your BC or weight belt is a huge tangible benefit. I was diving with 8# @ 198#, I wonder at 164# what I will need next month. I bet I could go with 6#.

I'm not talking about the benefits of being at a good weight or losing weight. I'm talking about all other things being equal, eating keto versus not. I.e. not overweight, and maintaining your weight.

This is the reason I won't bother to reply further. It's been a while since I've seen a larger strawman.

It was hyperbole. Further examples, in addition to you and your Bronze Age nutritional info, to illustrate how things that the scientific community used to accept as 100% true have subsequently been revealed to not be true.

Well, you can go ten or twelve hours more easily when you are not a high carb eater

Well, that answers that, for me. I don't normally do more than 2 or 3 dives in a day, and never without eating at least once in the middle of all that. So, I would not normally ever need to engage in 10 or 12 hours of activity without eating. So, it may be beneficial to some, but, as I said, I don't see any direct benefit to me and the way I dive.

"as a diver" includes more people than you, and most Americans have metabolic derangement and even many tech divers are, as evidenced by their big middles

I have a big middle and I am working on that. A KD has clear benefits when it comes to losing weight and thinning out that middle. As I said above, I was really talking about whether KD has benefits to someone's diving who is not overweight and is just maintaining the weight they are at. An ability to dive more/longer in between "re-fueling" is good. But, for me, anyway, the possibility of reducing risk of OxTox is of more interest.