lawyers and diving

[H2Andy]

Lawyers (in general) have almost no incentives to be efficient.

i can tell you haven't been in private practice for quite a while

two things have happened in the last 15 years or so:

the hourly cost to clients has sky-rocketted; and

clients SCRUTINIZE their bills, and will seldom pay what they feel
is "too much" for what they are getting

a client that feels they are paying too much for your servies is an unhappy
client. an unhappy client will look for another lawyer. if you're not
efficient, you'll lose the client because there are a zillion lawyers outthere
who will gladly do the work for less

sounds like an incentive to me eyebrow

 

[Web Monkey]

The original "time off" question was funny and sad at the same time.

Most college students don't realize that a job's pay is directly proportional to it's "sucking quotent" and how little of your own life you'll get to control.

Terry

BTW: I'm not really ItsBruce ... I'm a lawyer using his computer while he is out ... making furniture... yea, that's it, making furniture. And, if ItsBruce hurts himself while using a tablesaw, its his fault, not the tablesaw's fault.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Most college students don't realize that a job's pay is directly proportional to it's "sucking quotent" and how little of your own life you'll get to control.

It's absolutely true that the more a job sucks, the more you need to be paid in order to do it. Add in the supply of people who can perform the same task, and you've got a nice matrix. Jobs that "suck", and for which there are few applicants, will pay more than jobs that don't suck and that can be done by many people.

With regard to the control you have, that depends on your goals. Once you graduate and pass the bar, you've got a few choices. If your grades and credentials support it, you can go for the large firm experience, in which case you'll work your butt off and get paid very well. You could also seek a public sector position, in which case your work load would probably be less, but you'd make much less money. You could even hang out your own shingle. You can be your own boss, but if you don't work, you don't get paid. At the same time, you only need to work enough to generate the income you want. In other words, there are many options.

In my case, I started with larger firm in a small city. I worked hard (2400 - 2600 hrs/year billed), and had very little time off. I moved to a larger firm, and had even less time off at the start. However, as time progressed, I specialized and got seniority, and now have a reasonably balanced lifestyle.

If I wanted to have more time off, I could easily move to a different firm. However, I'd take the pay cut that goes with the lower suck quotient.

 

[H2Andy]

another "plum" job is the General Counsel position, usually for a large corporation
or other legal entity. either as the principal counsel or as an assistant counsel,
life is a lot easier.

another option is (what i opted for) the public general counsel, representing a
City or County. i am an assistant general counsel (in litigation) for Duval County,
Florida (a.k.a. Jacksonville). we are the largest public law firm in the state
(with just over 40 lawyers). the work is challenging, the atmosphere is collegial,
and the pay, while not quite what i was making in the public sector, is quite
competitive.

frankly, while i was in the private sector (I worked for Foley and Lardner
for several years), and i honestly can say i loved the attorneys and staff
there, i felt like i was a monkey with a rope tied around my neck and
everyone could pull it at will. true, it was a silk rope. but it was a rope.

it just wansn't for me. i was miserable. money has never been a motivator for me.

 

[ItsBruce]

I've been out washing the car, yeah, that's it, washing the car, and noticed someone had been posting under my name. Lots of stuff about lawyers.

My rule in life is that if you are going to do something, do it to the best of your ability and at the highest level you can, or don't do it at all. (I may have read that around here somewhere.) Along the same lines, there is the bit about paying your "dues." (I may have read that, too.)

I make lovely furniture. I learned from a master craftsman. But, I started by learning how to sweep up sawdust and progressed to sanding finished product before it was varnished. Eventually, I moved up to assembly, etc. Now, I do the whole thing. I suppose I could have opened my own shop and muddled my way through, but I'd probably have lost several fingers (it would have been my own fault). The better path was to have a mentor. I suspect the same goes for law.

BTW: I make some spectacular tank racks if anyone is interested.

 

[DivePartner1]

All of the lawyers who posted have good advice. It is easier to fall into a legal job that you will hate or that will devour you, then to find one you truly like. But it can be done. And don’t be blinded by idealism. What looks like a dream job will evolve into a nightmare if the work is dull, the boss treats you badly, or you don’t earn enough to pay down your student debt. But if you find a job, any job, that captures your imagine, it is hardly work at all.

Your biggest challenge at this stage of your career is to honestly consider what you want out of life. You have to live it, not your parents and not your peers. Look at your career without regard to convention or career expectations. This is very hard to do. What do you want to do every day, for years?

If you want to dive, consider location as well as job. Your biggest challenge to get in diving will be time management because there never is enough time for the job. If you are not close to water, be near an airport with more than one airline to draw travel deals. And know where the closest lake, quarry or beach is.

For my part, I’ve landed one of the “plum jobs” in a corporate GC’s office that Andy referred to (Foley is a great firm, by the way). I’ve gotten as many as 90+ dives in a year in more than once, but you have to work at it, like anything else. I‘ve done this by turning the monotony of forced business travel into dive trips (schedule work on Monday and travel on Friday), and have forced myself the discipline of actually taking vacations.

One nice thing about in-house GC practice that has kept my interest is that we enjoy a broad general practice and network with lawyers anywhere in the world where we work. I literally don’t know what to expect when I come to work each day, and I love that. Before this, I’d pretty much done it all, from building a trial practice from scratch, to working in a large firm. I’d been a registered lobbyist, done non-profit work and fund raising, done large deals here and overseas, and managed litigation for a publicly-traded multinational.

If you have any questions on different kinds of work, PM me. Best of luck!

 

[DivePartner1]

. . . I suspect the same goes for law.
QUOTE]

Yes, very much so. And I bet you make great furniture. Good post!

 

[DivePartner1]

i can tell you haven't been in private practice for quite a while

two things have happened in the last 15 years or so:

the hourly cost to clients has sky-rocketted; and

clients SCRUTINIZE their bills, and will seldom pay what they feel
is "too much" for what they are getting

As someone reviewing those bills, I can vouch for Andy and NEWrecks that:

1. True, 2. Scrutinize is the right word. It is a buyer's market and the cleints know it.