Scubagolf
Contributor
From the perspective of a very recently retired lawyer, and a 5th year diver, one has ZERO to do with the other, but don't bet on having any free time for diving. 
lawyers and diving
- Thread starter jjgibo
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H2Andy
Contributor
LioKai:
notice that i didn't say nothing about mama and papa
:14:
ItsBruce
Contributor
jjgibo, before ItsBruce finds out I've been using his login and kicks me off, I figured I'd tell you somethingg about the lawyer jokes and lawyer bashing: Lawyers have client jokes. They are generally kept a secret. However, since you are a lawyer in training, I figured I'd share them with you. However, out of an abundance of caution, I did it by way of a PM. Hope you enjoy them. Remember, keep them a secret.
To everyone else: Why is it that when one goes to a doctor one must fill out pages and pages of forms, the only purpose of which is to assure the doctor payment? Why else would the form ask about one's employer, one's spouse, one's insurance, one's bank and responsible parties? It is only after filling out all of these forms that the forms even ask what is wrong with you.
To everyone else: Why is it that when one goes to a doctor one must fill out pages and pages of forms, the only purpose of which is to assure the doctor payment? Why else would the form ask about one's employer, one's spouse, one's insurance, one's bank and responsible parties? It is only after filling out all of these forms that the forms even ask what is wrong with you.
ItsBruce
Contributor
Oh, all, right ... How can you tell when a client is not telling you what really happened when he hires you to sue someone?
And there lies the defintion of "reverse necrophilia".LioKai:
ItsBruce
Contributor
ItsBruce:
His lips are moving.
Darnold9999
Contributor
My 2 cents.
As an ex lawyer, ex law professor (and a bunch of other ex's - I have a short attention span ) I now do technology consulting for lawyers. My experience is that most of them hate what they do. Somewhere around 70% - the other 30% love it. Most of the 30% are split into two camps - first there are the ones that are partners in a big firm with a specialty or significant skills that allow them to run their own show within the firm. Second are the ones in very small firms that have a specialty or significant skills that allow them to attract clients that they want to work for.
From this my first advice to someone about to go to law school is to go ahead but if at all possible find somewhere else to apply your skills. Practicing law is not the only way to apply the degree. If you do have to practice, my advice is to get very very good at it - so you can get out of the trenches and choose how you spend your life. The life of "joe average" lawyer is not one I would wish on anyone.
The "culture" of 70+ hour workweeks and silly billing targets is just that - a culture - created by a "need" for higher incomes and the billable hour. Lawyers (in general) have almost no incentives to be efficient.
i.e. Spending time becomming more efficient is a waste of time. The better you are at it the fewer billable hours you generate. Far better to apply your intellect on becoming a better lawyer in some other way. The payoff is much greater.
As an ex lawyer, ex law professor (and a bunch of other ex's - I have a short attention span
) I now do technology consulting for lawyers. My experience is that most of them hate what they do. Somewhere around 70% - the other 30% love it. Most of the 30% are split into two camps - first there are the ones that are partners in a big firm with a specialty or significant skills that allow them to run their own show within the firm. Second are the ones in very small firms that have a specialty or significant skills that allow them to attract clients that they want to work for.From this my first advice to someone about to go to law school is to go ahead but if at all possible find somewhere else to apply your skills. Practicing law is not the only way to apply the degree. If you do have to practice, my advice is to get very very good at it - so you can get out of the trenches and choose how you spend your life. The life of "joe average" lawyer is not one I would wish on anyone.
The "culture" of 70+ hour workweeks and silly billing targets is just that - a culture - created by a "need" for higher incomes and the billable hour. Lawyers (in general) have almost no incentives to be efficient.
i.e. Spending time becomming more efficient is a waste of time. The better you are at it the fewer billable hours you generate. Far better to apply your intellect on becoming a better lawyer in some other way. The payoff is much greater.
jjgibo:
I'm an IP/commercial attorney and a diver.
Practicing law affects my diving in two ways. First, it somewhat limits the amount of time I can dive. At the same time, it allows me to purchase technical dive gear, training and trips.
With regard to the comments about the nature of the work, there's no question that many positions, particularly those in private practice, will require long hours. Its worth remembering that you are building your practice. You're also setting yourself up for a partnership, and gaining experience.
I disagree with comments regarding overbilling and promoting inefficiency. The more efficiently I work, the happier the client is and the more work I can handle. Happy clients send more work, and having the time to perform more work allows me to work for more clients. Inefficiency, on the other hand, may result in more revenue from a particular matter, but it limits your ability to service the client and, eventually, sets you up for a problem when someone else comes in and claims that they can do the same job for less.
Overall, I'm happy with the work that I do and the lifestyle that it provides. My advice would be to try to specialize. For example, I handle substantially all of our firm's bankruptcy work. I also handle IP litigation, commercial litigation and commercial transactions. I fall into the category of working on some matters that no one else at my firm handles. That does make me happy, as it provides the opportunity to operate independently on many cases, while having other attorneys available when the need arises.
I see no reason to hide the fact that I'm an attorney from my dive buddies, the same way that I know what they do (research scientist, investments, insurance, etc...). That said, I've never threatened to sue anyone for "damages" I've supposedly suffered. Its just not my style. I'd rather save my lawyer hat for work, and relax the rest of the time.
pigletfish
Contributor
One important thing to keep in mind is that not all lawyers are litigators. My husband is a corporate attorney -- his firm generally represents large banks that are underwriting debt financing for large companies. He never goes near a courtroom and does not go around looking for lawsuits.
That said, the life of an associate at a the corporate "Big Law" firms has its tradeoffs:
We live in NYC, so we don't dive locally, but if we did he wouldn't have much time to do so. He tends to work 90-100 hours a week, with rarely a weekend day off. He does take his 4 weeks of vacation each year, though, and we spend at least 3 of them diving is great tropical locations. These vacations, and all the gear and gadgets, are largely made possible by his law firm salary.
We'll be in Kona again at the end of June. Having disclosed that my husband is a lawyer, I hope I can still find a charter to take us aboard!
That said, the life of an associate at a the corporate "Big Law" firms has its tradeoffs:
We live in NYC, so we don't dive locally, but if we did he wouldn't have much time to do so. He tends to work 90-100 hours a week, with rarely a weekend day off. He does take his 4 weeks of vacation each year, though, and we spend at least 3 of them diving is great tropical locations. These vacations, and all the gear and gadgets, are largely made possible by his law firm salary.
We'll be in Kona again at the end of June. Having disclosed that my husband is a lawyer, I hope I can still find a charter to take us aboard!
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