Just finished my PADI Cert - you have GOT to be kidding me

[TSandM]

You know, I was really lucky. Although I have many criticisms of my open water class, equipment is not one of them. We had quality gear in good condition. It was not gear I liked (and I didn't buy anything like it, even the first time) but it was good gear. Not all shops cut corners that way.

 

[ekewaka]

i seriously dont get your dive industry over there.......

Neither do I. It is not a good way to run a business. No wonder so many are losing money.

 

[Rick Murchison]

How come half the posters on SB think training is too cheap and the other half think it is too expensive?

Traditionally, the Scuba industry kept the doors open with gear sales, which had margins similar to clothing. That was enough to cover fixed costs and to make a little money for the shop staff too. Training was essentially a loss-leader, with charges that typically just cover pool fees (or maintenance, in the case of a shop-owned pool). If instructors were actually full time, their wages were subsidized from gear sales as well as a few shekels from class fees.
The internet is changing all that.
Fixed costs - rent, utilities, licenses, insurance etc remain, but either margins on gear must be cut or sales volume will be cut as the internet eats into the market. Either way, the gear sales profit center is taking a hit at most local dive stores. The exceptions are those who've been able to make inroads into the internet market (but even that'll dry up as manufacturers realize they must allow lower margins in their customers' stores or they're history, and gear sales level out across the board).
What this all means is that the paradigm is shifting; instruction is of necessity moving from loss-leader to profit center - it must pay its own way, and prices are going to have to get more realistic.
So, let's be realistic - whether independent or not, with no subsidy from gear sales, how much is an OW class worth?
First of all, in order to conduct a class, you have to either have students willing to buy gear in advance, or you have to buy tanks, BCs, regulators, and probably wetsuits. In all sizes. (No, the LDS Scuba gear fairy doesn't just drop this stuff on the shop for free - it must be bought). Of course you can amortize the cost of the gear over its life, but what about the money to get it in the first place? That usually means a loan, and the price of money has to be factored in there too.
Gotta rent (or buy and maintain) a pool.
Air fills - typically 10 - 12 per student, plus air for the instructor.
Of course the instructor is expected to wear the latest gear, and guess what - even key-man prices don't make it cheap.
Insurance. Just keeps going up and up and up...
A place to teach - it ain't free.
Taxes; licenses... the city, county, state & feds have to get their cut.
After you get all that stuff paid for, then you can take what's left and start calculating the hourly wage for the instructor. But remember, for every hour in class the instructor probably spends an hour on extra-curricular preparation and paperwork.
If I actually had to make a living as a Scuba instructor, instead of just using it to cover some of the cost of my Scuba habit, I'd have to charge a hell of a lot more than $550 for an OW class, I guarantee.
Folks who think that's steep for an OW class ain't payin' all the bills.
Rick

 

[shoredivr]

Well said, Rick! And I do not work for a scuba store, nor am I a scuba instructor.

 

[rahuck]

Hmmmm, being from NY I too am curious about the name of the shop. Feel free to PM.

 

[45yrold_newbie]

I can certainly understand Rick's point of all the overhead in maintaining a shop and the expenses related to training. What I don't get though is how there is such a big difference in the cost of the Crew Paks and gear rentals etc. I bought the Crew Pak and DVD from Scuba.com for around $90 delivered to my door. Then I went to my dive shop and paid $300 for OW. That includes the equipment for all the dives, the pool dives (the LDS has a deal with a local high school for use of their pool), and the OW dives at a local quarry. The gear is certainly not NEW but I would (and will *have* to rent for a time) and fell it is serviced and properly functioning. I guess I got lucky?!

Just like everything else related to SCUBA instruction I guess it comes down to the LDS owner and the instructor. If they are good and have a professional attitude then their service and instruction will reflect it. If you're not happy with your LDS or instructor then why continue to patronize them. There are several shops in my area I have to beleive that New York has more to choose from.

Happy diving!

 

[1_T_Submariner]

I don't know about the price issues. But the gear being in that shape is sad. I think I would find another shop/instructor etc for more training.

 

[alcina]

I'm with almitywife!

I just don't get shops not having high quality gear for hire and for students. I have not, happily, seen that at dive shops here in Western Australia (bar a couple of places that are a bit dodgy in other ways, too) or out of Cairns (the only places I have personally been and granted, Cairns was a long long time ago!). I have not heard of crappy gear being widespread anywhere else in Australia, either.

I know we replace virtually all of our gear every year and we have a rigorous maintenance program while stuff is in hire. Who wants to deal with bad gear day to day? Just doesn't make sense to me!

 

[jsado]

With all the waivers I signed, why not add another one stating I'm using my own gear thats been fully inspected within the last year. Maybe even knock a little off the total price.

As far as pinpointing the shop or city, I really don't feel comfortable. I do need refills on my tanks!

 

[Rick Inman]

I'm not and instructor or work at a dive shop, but I do wish that the scuba industry was less equipment-sales driven and more instruction driven. In other words, I believe it would be in my (the consumer's) best interest if the cost of instruction was higher and better suited to profit the LDS.

It costs a lot more to get a pilot's license, and the instructor, during the lessons, isn't trying to hock you a plane. He/she is totally focused on quality instruction, and the purchase of equipment is a separate issue.

Discount scuba lessons set the student up for sub-par training, and force the shop to count on gear purchases from student to stay in business. So, where do you think the focus of the customer relationship must end up? In quality training, or in gear sales?

Fortunately, in spite of this backward system, there are many good instructors out there giving safe instruction - and getting paid less than the job deserves.

But usually, you get exactly what you pay for. If you want a discount class, you'll end up paying for it somewhere else. Personally, I think good instruction is worth paying for.