Charlie99
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You forget Brownies 3rd Lung and Extreme Exposure.
It's getting so you need a scorecard to keep track of the J Jablonski / Robert Carmichael / GUE companies.
Just curious about how well marketed "GUE" concept is in various parts of the world?
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It's getting so you need a scorecard to keep track of the J Jablonski / Robert Carmichael / GUE companies.
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I hear ya.
We went to 85 feet last weekend...very...hmm...dark!
I'm overdue for the ocean, as well. But I don't know when I'll be able to get away. The three of us should go to San Carlos or Catalina.
Oh...I forgot...that won't work... the saltwater wussy.
OK... we'll throw 'em in back of my truck, hog-tied and blindfolded.
He'll be screamin' for his mama!
SA
newdiverAZ
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yeah I should be able to make it Saturday. Friday night won't work though. But I'll let ya no for sure thursday. I'm maybe goin out on the boat thursday to help finish a rescue class.
newdiverAZ
Contributor
Yeah I think once we get his salinity raised a bit he'll be ok. And after he cleans the stuff he'll inject into his wetsuit the first time he sees viz were ya can actually see your fins lol. I was gonna go to San Carlos this last weekend but it fell apart, I hafta make a trip there sometime soon for part of my el mar internship.
It's not "the DIR-F" book (DIR-F is a class), not a "rolling ad for Halcyon", and I doubt you've ever read it.
It's amazing the people that just prefer to be ignorant.
http://www.gue.com/catalog/order
"The Fundamentals of Better Diving was written for anyone who wants to get the most out of their diving. From augmenting dive safety to increasing the enjoyment of your family's Caribbean diving trip or planning deep cave exploration, DIR diving is the new foundation for all diving practices. This book outlines not only the essential skills and techniques constituting sound diving practice but also the central elements of a holistic approach to diving."
Don't feel bad, I'm sure there's nothing in a book written by one of the most accomplished divers in the world that you'd find beneficial in any way, Newdiver.
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I don't know if Brian has read the DIR-F book or not. It is of course correctly titled "Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" but can be referred to as the DIR-F book...I think everybody knows what that is.
I have read it several times and not being particularly ignorant myself I understand exactly what Brian is suggesting.
Most around here, even "ignorant" ole' Brian, know that DIR does not claim a brand preference. The DIR-F book doesn't actually advertise Halcyon...well not directly, anyways. But it gets the message across. More than one third of the book is dedicated to equipment with a lot of the rest being arguably fluff. While purposefully not requiring Halcyon gear, the book nevertheless promotes the type of gear that Halcyon manufactures. And it works! I'm proof of that! My closet is loaded with thousands of dollars worth of Halcyon gear. I love the stuff!
I think that Brians point is a valid one. These books whether the Fundamentals book or a PADI text all promote gear sales one way or another. Thats not necessarily a bad thing.
I reckon that the preface to the PADI texts have a similar theme.
I believe that the Fundamentals book was written by folks that want to share good information in the form of a well written manual. Hmm I think that I can say the same for the PADI texts as well. But it is obvious that both promote the sale of gear.
SA
"if that bothered you don't read the dirf book. It is a rolling ad for halcyon."
Well, help me out.
Brian says not to read the book, because it's a rolling ad for Halcyon. You then go on to contradict yourself, more than once, saying that "The DIR-F book doesn't actually advertise Halcyon" and that "I think that Brians point is a valid one". I was wondering how you put those two together. You then say that the book is 2/3 fluff, but that you've read it several times. I don't get it. I'm also really curious about how PADI texts "obviously promote the sale of gear", other than the fact it would probably be good to have scuba gear while scuba diving. I mean, if you read a trimix manual, it probably describes gear you'll need to trimix dive. That doesn't make it a rolling ad for trimix gear.
Anyway, I've read the Fundamentals Book, several times, and found it very informative. Already being an experienced diver, it altered my practices in several ways. Sorry that you and he didn't garnish anything from it, but I guess reading's all in the comprehension.
JohnF
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It's always been my understanding that Halcyon, and GUE for that matter, kind of evolved in response to a specific set of accumulated proven dive protocols eventually dubbed "Doing It Right". That being the case it's easy to see why some folks would get the idea that DIR & GUE promote the Halcyon products. Some make it sound like DIR and GUE evolved out of Halcyon but I think they have the timeline skewed.
MHK makes a rather convincing argument at the DIR Demoes that GUE is not about promoting Halcyon, but it's pretty evident to anyone who pays attention that the Halcyon gear almost without exception has been the closest thing to a true DIR solution offered on the market, although there are some nice new products coming along now that are challenging that exclusivity.
JohnF
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Custer, the paragraph you quoted above is the first paragraph in the Preface of the book ... and due to the audience JJ describes in this paragraph, I have one specific issue that I'll address a bit further on. But to address the advertising issue first, while there's a ton of valuable info in the book, it does in fact contain a great many plugs for Halcyon gear.
For example, on page 70 ... "The Halcyon backplate and wing system is unique in its ability to accept single tanks without a single tank adapter." On page 72 (after spending the previous pages telling the reader all about what's wrong with other people's harness/wing systems and how to modify them ... "Alternately, divers can avoid all these modifications and purchase a BC that is specifically designed for DIR, namely, the Halcyon BC."
Halcyon's canister light (page 96) and manifold (page 89) are also specifically mentioned.
While I don't take issue with JJ promoting his own company in the book (why shouldn't he, they're great products?) ... it's misleading to say that it doesn't happen.
Getting back to the audience specified by the paragraph you quoted ... if the manual is written for any diver, at any level, why does JJ bring up the practice of doubling up burst disks in scuba cylinders (page 62)? That's a patently unsafe practice for any but the most trained of technical divers (who have gained the requisite knowledge to be able to blend their own gases on their own compressors and have been trained to rigorously maintain their valves and cylinders).
Given the emphasis on diver safety thoughout the entire rest of the text, this particular topic seems noticeably disturbing (in the context of writing a book that's appropriate for the casual diver taking his family on a trip to the Caribbean). Not to mention that, in the USA at least, the DOT takes a rather dim view of people defeating safety devices mandated by federal law.
Honestly, there's a lot of good info in the book ... and I am glad I took the time to read it. But in all honesty, I think JJ does go out of his way to not only use the manual as a means to advertise Halcyon gear, but to also caricaturize other training agencies as a means to hype the DIR method of diving.
Again, I don't have any particular issue with him doing so ... but I think it's an honest assessment of what's in the book, from an "outsider's" perspective.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
detroit diver
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With the possible exception of the wing (and that is now being challenged), there is NOTHING made by Halcyon that cannot be supplied by another manufacturer.
Backplates-too many brands to count. I use a FredT.
Harness- any continuous one piece harness material. My own material.
Mask-your choice of low volume I use a Mares mask.
Fins-Halcyon doesn't make 'em Jets or Turtles
Drysuit, underwear, etc- your choice as long as it fits properly- Halcyon doesn't make these either.
Lights- bright cannister light. Your choice. I like Halcyon.
Regulators-Downstream Halcyon doesn't make them
Tanks-proper ones for the situation Halcyon doesn't make them
Manifold-must have isolator Lots of manufacturers. I have no idea what manifold I own!!
SPG's- lot's of manufacturers Mine is a no-name brass SPG.
The point is-
This GUE/DIR/Halcyon link that some think is there-just isn't.
This is about quality equipment to do the job correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.
Do they sell the stuff because they make it? Of course. But neither the books, nor the instructors push Halcyon product-EXCLUSIVELY. In fact, I believe MHK has told us that he was specifically told NOT to mention Halcyon as a preferred manufacturer during his Fundamentals classes. That's pretty poor marketing for a company that supposedly wants to shove their product down your throats.
The conspiracy fans need to stick to JFK.
Backplates-too many brands to count. I use a FredT.
Harness- any continuous one piece harness material. My own material.
Mask-your choice of low volume I use a Mares mask.
Fins-Halcyon doesn't make 'em Jets or Turtles
Drysuit, underwear, etc- your choice as long as it fits properly- Halcyon doesn't make these either.
Lights- bright cannister light. Your choice. I like Halcyon.
Regulators-Downstream Halcyon doesn't make them
Tanks-proper ones for the situation Halcyon doesn't make them
Manifold-must have isolator Lots of manufacturers. I have no idea what manifold I own!!
SPG's- lot's of manufacturers Mine is a no-name brass SPG.
The point is-
This GUE/DIR/Halcyon link that some think is there-just isn't.
This is about quality equipment to do the job correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.
Do they sell the stuff because they make it? Of course. But neither the books, nor the instructors push Halcyon product-EXCLUSIVELY. In fact, I believe MHK has told us that he was specifically told NOT to mention Halcyon as a preferred manufacturer during his Fundamentals classes. That's pretty poor marketing for a company that supposedly wants to shove their product down your throats.
The conspiracy fans need to stick to JFK.
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