Just curious about how well marketed "GUE" concept is in various parts of the world?

[newdiverAZ]

Custer once bubbled...


It's not "the DIR-F" book (DIR-F is a class), not a "rolling ad for Halcyon", and I doubt you've ever read it.

It's amazing the people that just prefer to be ignorant.

http://www.gue.com/catalog/order

"The Fundamentals of Better Diving was written for anyone who wants to get the most out of their diving. From augmenting dive safety to increasing the enjoyment of your family's Caribbean diving trip or planning deep cave exploration, DIR diving is the new foundation for all diving practices. This book outlines not only the essential skills and techniques constituting sound diving practice but also the central elements of a holistic approach to diving."

Don't feel bad, I'm sure there's nothing in a book written by one of the most accomplished divers in the world that you'd find beneficial in any way, Newdiver.

Well first of the book is right here on my desk. so don't assume anything. Second I am not against DIR at all, my buddy is half dir I guesss you would say. I' m makin a point that all everyone says is oh PADI's bad cause they push gear, they all push gear. How is padi bad for doing this?
And other than changing your gear what other practices are outlined in "The Fundamentals of better Diving", is that better, it sure is alot more to type than dirf book, but whatever floats your rowboat. And I am very happy for JJ that he is the best diver in the world, maybe some of you "fanatics" and I do not use this term to desctibe the actual good ambassadors of GUE, should stop being a bunch of followers and be original. Once again I AM NOT against dir!!

 

[SeaJay]

I say this as a friend:

Better put the flame suit on now. Batten down the hatches...

By the way... Please stop believing the baloney that you're seeing online and try checking out some DIR guys in person. I think you'd be really surprised.

GI3 is NOT a GUE representative... And GUE ain't too happy with his approach either, you know.

 

[newdiverAZ]

look sea jay

I have no, and I repeat no problem with GUE. I have a problem with all these clueless people that say ohh this is bad if this agency does it but it's ok if this agency does it. Who cares????
What makes JJ a great diver? What makes GI3 a great diver??
They are leaders. Period. The other gue instructors leaders. The people here throwin all this garbage around are followers. I'd rather be a leader than a follower but that's just my opinion.

 

[Custer]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
Don't put me on your..."he's an idiot list" just quite yet.

You seem intelligent and articulate. The only list you're on is the "I was covering for my buddy's inane post" list.

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
I'm a big fan of DIR...all aspects of it. Perhaps I've contradicted myself...it wouldn't be the first time...but I don't think that I've done so.

But please don't paraphrase what I have said...or for that matter...please don't misquote what I have written.

The correct quote would have been, "The DIR-F book doesn't actually advertise Halcyon...well not directly, anyways."

Fair enough. Reconcile these three statements:

"if that bothered you don't read the dirf book. It is a rolling ad for halcyon."

"The DIR-F book doesn't actually advertise Halcyon...well not directly, anyways."

"I think that Brian’s point is a valid one. These books – whether the Fundamentals book or a PADI text – all promote gear sales one way or another."

Brian's point was that the book was a rolling Halcyon ad, not that it promotes general gear sales, and you make an excellent case for the fact that it isn't below. I stand by my post.

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
You see, I put the - "well not directly, anyways" - there for a reason. The book rarely mentions Halcyon directly and even when it does it provides some balance by also mentioning other manufactures that make a similar product that would meet the recommendations. Here's an example: "Rubber knobs - like those found on the Halcyon manifold - are very robust, while softer plastic knobs - such as those found on the Scubapro manifold - also seem to resist breaking." p89

Yet, there is no arguing that the book makes very specific recommendations on just exactly what is appropriate DIR gear. Even though it doesn't make many specific manufacturer recommendations the end result benefits Halcyon - a leader in the manufacturing of DIR gear. I personally don't have a problem with that. Like I said, I love the stuff! But I bet that I wouldn't have bought all of that gear if I hadn't read this book or learned about DIR and found much of what it suggests to be great advice.

Don't be so naive not to see that promoting DIR serves Halcyon's purpose. It's part of their trade mark for goodness sake. It's "almost brilliant."

Please keep in mind that DIR was not created by JJ, but George, from input from his predecessors, and predates GUE and Halcyon noticeably.

Furthermore, it seems obvious to me that on JJ's name alone, Halcyon could make a much wider range of dive gear that the public would buy, if profitability were a key motive. They can sell a lot more BCs, fins and snorkels than they can BPs, Scouts and spools, and they choose not too. No offense, but some of the conspiracy theorists can't see the forest for the forest.

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
"You then say that the book is 2/3 fluff, but that you've read it several times. I don't get it."

That of course is not what I said either. The correct quote is, "More than one third of the book is dedicated to equipment with a lot of the rest being arguably fluff." That is quite a bit different than what you have suggested that I said. A large portion of the book is about gear. And, yes, a lot of the rest is "arguably fluff.” Sorry…that’s how I see it. We can go into that if you want.

“Anyway, I've read the Fundamentals Book, several times, and found it very informative.” Me, too!

“Sorry that you and he didn't garnish anything from it, but I guess reading's all in the comprehension.”

I don’t know what Brian did or didn’t get from the book but I got a lot out of it. I’m not sure why you would suggest that I didn’t.
SA

There again, reconcile these two statements:

"More than one third of the book is dedicated to equipment with a lot of the rest being arguably fluff."

"“Anyway, I've read the Fundamentals Book, several times, and found it very informative.” Me, too!"

How can this be if it's 2/3s fluff? I have a habit of drawing conclusions on vague statements, perhaps you can clarify exactly what you meant. Call that a misquote if you want, I'll call it the obvious conclusion. Your initial statement doesn't seem to be the glowing review from this post.

"You then say that the book is 2/3 fluff, but that you've read it several times."

Seems to be what you said, sorry if I misunderstood. Seems to be a lot of that going on.

As for what Brian garnished from the book, he seems to have made that clear.

 

[Custer]

newdiverAZ once bubbled... Well first of the book is right here on my desk. so don't assume anything.

I was just going by your glowing endorsement.

newdiverAZ once bubbled... Second I am not against DIR at all, my buddy is half dir I guesss you would say. I' m makin a point that all everyone says is oh PADI's bad cause they push gear, they all push gear. How is padi bad for doing this?And other than changing your gear what other practices are outlined in "The Fundamentals of better Diving", is that better, it sure is alot more to type than dirf book, but whatever floats your rowboat. And I am very happy for JJ that he is the best diver in the world, maybe some of you "fanatics" and I do not use this term to desctibe the actual good ambassadors of GUE, should stop being a bunch of followers and be original. Once again I AM NOT against dir!!

I didn't criticize you for not being DIR. I don't think anybody really cares if you are or aren't.

GUE/DIR puts all the information out there for you, unlike any other dive agency, and if you don't want it, they could care less.

I have the latest PADI OW manual right here, please give me an example of it "pushing gear".

As far as fanaticizm and originality, DIR wouldn't have me. I like solo diving, Quattros, #4 Value Meals, beer by the pitcher, and riding my computer like a rocket sled. And tequila shots. Lots of them. I dive how, where, and when I want.

I just have to throw down the flag when I see inaccuracy, sorry.

 

[newdiverAZ]

I have the latest PADI OW manual right here, please give me an example of it "pushing gear".



one of the training modules is a sales pitch. I don't have a problem with this. I have a problem with people saying other agencies don't do this cause it's a crock. No gear sales = no money = people not doing that anymore = no more diving, whatever agency it is. Why shouldn't people like Mike Ferrara be able to charge atleast as much for an O/W class as a dirf class? Well becaus eof the wonderful world we live in and the cheap people that live in it. So if Mike don't sell alot of gear, he don't teach anymore, which in my opinion is a loss, so why not push gear if it keeps good people doing good things.

 

[Custer]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I have the latest PADI OW manual right here, please give me an example of it "pushing gear".

one of the training modules is a sales pitch.

Where? Which one? Just because a scuba instruction manual tells you what a mask is, doesn't mean they're pushing gear. You gotta have a mask to dive, Brian.

Is there any information in the manual even suggesting that you should buy the gear at the shop you're being trained at?

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I don't have a problem with this. I have a problem with people saying other agencies don't do this cause it's a crock. No gear sales = no money = people not doing that anymore = no more diving, whatever agency it is. Why shouldn't people like Mike Ferrara be able to charge atleast as much for an O/W class as a dirf class? Well becaus eof the wonderful world we live in and the cheap people that live in it. So if Mike don't sell alot of gear, he don't teach anymore, which in my opinion is a loss, so why not push gear if it keeps good people doing good things.

At my LDS, there are at least 5 sattelite instructors who's students seldom if ever enter the shop. The majority of the instructors I personally know don't own, or even work at a shop.

When one of the shop's students is standing in the showroom asking about gear, well, of course the get the shop's gear.

But it's not in the NAUI student manual anywhere.

 

[newdiverAZ]

I didn't say in the manual, I said one of the training modules, I wouldn't know about independant instructors. I Did not say I have a problem with this, I think you may be a lil confused. But I'll slow down a lil for ya. The problem is people saying this agency is bad for doing the same thing that all the rest do also. Yes PADI does have some challenges, most of them are people, not the agency itself.

 

[Custer]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I didn't say in the manual, I said one of the training modules, I wouldn't know about independant instructors. I Did not say I have a problem with this, I think you may be a lil confused. But I'll slow down a lil for ya. The problem is people saying this agency is bad for doing the same thing that all the rest do also. Yes PADI does have some challenges, most of them are people, not the agency itself.

Thanks for slowing down!

I am confused.

I said: "I have the latest PADI OW manual right here, please give me an example of it "pushing gear".

You said: "one of the training modules is a sales pitch."

I missed that part about the training manual. It's funny, this thread has been full of people that say one thing, but mean another.

Sure is throwing me for a loop, I'm gonna get a cat scan first thing in the morning.

 

[newdiverAZ]

last time I looked a module and a manual were 2 different things. Kinda funny how people in this thread read into posts whatever the he** they want