Just curious about how well marketed "GUE" concept is in various parts of the world?

[newdiverAZ]

cat scan prolly wouldn't work, they work on the assumption there is something to scan.

 

[Custer]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
last time I looked a module and a manual were 2 different things.

Funny, my OW manual has modules right in it.

Then we had this:

I said: "I have the latest -------->PADI OW manual<------ right here, please give me an example of it "pushing gear".

You said: "one of the training modules is a sales pitch."

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
Kinda funny how people in this thread read into posts whatever the he** they want

Boy howdy.

 

[newdiverAZ]

dude I'm not talking about the book. The teaching presentation of the class or module, at the dive center that I am familiar with, and from what I've heard here, is a tour of the dive shop to look at all the fancy gear. It is also the reason that most shops insist you teach in gear that they sell. Ask Mike Ferrara what the whole point of the education part of Padi is all about. He should know better than both of us. and once again I do not have a problem with people trying to sell gear.

 

[Custer]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
dude I'm not talking about the book. The teaching presentation of the class or module, at the dive center that I am familiar with, and from what I've heard here, is a tour of the dive shop to look at all the fancy gear. It is also the reason that most shops insist you teach in gear that they sell. Ask Mike Ferrara what the whole point of the education part of Padi is all about. He should know better than both of us. and once again I do not have a problem with people trying to sell gear.

Hey, ya got me. Last I knew, we were discussing your remarks about the Fundamentals book, and Steve said that you meant all training manuals were the same.

How we got to instructor modules is beyond me.

Maybe you could slow down some more.

 

[newdiverAZ]

Think I'm gonna slow right outta this waste of time. You are right. I'm wrong. You feel better? Maybe one day you can come diving with me and follow my lead. Later

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Custer once bubbled...


You seem intelligent and articulate. The only list you're on is the "I was covering for my buddy's inane post" list.

That's pretty funny and not too far from the truth...but I think that I would have left out the word "inane". Oh...I'm intelligent and at times articulate but more often than not I'm not too bright and have a hard time getting my point across. Dang it...more contradictory statements. Geeze...gotta work on that!

I like your style...you can be my dive buddy anytime...but lighten up on Brian. You guys would probably agree on more than you might guess.

Custer once bubbled...

Fair enough. Reconcile these three statements:

"if that bothered you don't read the dirf book. It is a rolling ad for halcyon."

"The DIR-F book doesn't actually advertise Halcyon...well not directly, anyways."

"I think that Brian’s point is a valid one. These books – whether the Fundamentals book or a PADI text – all promote gear sales one way or another."

Brian's point was that the book was a rolling Halcyon ad, not that it promotes general gear sales, and you make an excellent case for the fact that it isn't below. I stand by my post.

I think that I'll stand by my post as well. Sorry if it's confusing but it's not that important and I'm not sure how to make my point any more clear. I'll think on it and get back to ya on this one.

Custer once bubbled...

Please keep in mind that DIR was not created by JJ, but George, from input from his predecessors, and predates GUE and Halcyon noticeably.

Furthermore, it seems obvious to me that on JJ's name alone, Halcyon could make a much wider range of dive gear that the public would buy, if profitability were a key motive. They can sell a lot more BCs, fins and snorkels than they can BPs, Scouts and spools, and they choose not too. No offense, but some of the conspiracy theorists can't see the forest for the forest.

Well...I don't hang with those guys so it's hard for me to guess just what they're up to or what they really think about things. Is there some "conspiracy"? I have no idea and I certainly never suggested such a thing. Let's assume that their intentions are honorable and that they are motivated by a genuine desire to offer a solid, well thought out way of diving that addresses many of the problems that mainstream scuba training has overlooked.

Custer once bubbled...


There again, reconcile these two statements:

"More than one third of the book is dedicated to equipment with a lot of the rest being arguably fluff."

"“Anyway, I've read the Fundamentals Book, several times, and found it very informative.” Me, too!"

How can this be if it's 2/3s fluff? I have a habit of drawing conclusions on vague statements, perhaps you can clarify exactly what you meant. Call that a misquote if you want, I'll call it the obvious conclusion. Your initial statement doesn't seem to be the glowing review from this post.

"You then say that the book is 2/3 fluff, but that you've read it several times."

Seems to be what you said, sorry if I misunderstood. Seems to be a lot of that going on.

Yah, I agree. I think that a lot of the stuff IS fluff. By that I mean that a lot of the stuff in the book isn't particularly original or thought provoking or isn't covered in enough detail to be usefull.


For instance, I found Chapter 1, What am I missing? and Chapter 2, Learning how to Learn rather useless and even a bit insulting and condescending. Some of the things mentioned in those chapters seem to me to be rather unprofessional and I think actually serve only to alienate GUE's purpose. I didn't learn much from Chapter 3, Building a Solid Foundation or from Chapter 7, Are You Ready for Technical Diving? either. Chapter 8 Alternate Breathing Mixtures was way too basic to be very interesting and Chapters 9 and 10, Diving Environments and Rescue Diving didn't present much that was original. (Although I did find the bit about using a regulator to ventilate an apneic victim to be sorta cool.)

There are, however, a few interesting tid bits in those particular chapters so they're not a complete loss. What I found more interesting and helpful were the chapters on DIR philosophy and gear configuration and those chapters alone make reading the book worthwhile. Was I dissapointed with the book? Yes and no. I would have liked it if it had been more detailed. I think that it left a lot of stuff out that I would have liked seen discussed.

But notice that I said, "arguably fluff". Some of the things that were not particularly enlightening for me might be interesting for someone else.

And, of course, just because I found a lot of the book superfluous doesn't mean that I wouldn't read it several times anyway. I might read it again tonight!

SA

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Custer once bubbled...


Hey, ya got me. Last I knew, we were discussing your remarks about the Fundamentals book, and Steve said that you meant all training manuals were the same.

...no I didn't.

SA

 

[Custer]

Uh...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Custer once bubbled...

Hey, ya got me. Last I knew, we were discussing your remarks about the Fundamentals book, and Steve said that you meant all training manuals were the same.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...no I didn't.

SA


"I think that Brian’s point is a valid one. These books – whether the Fundamentals book or a PADI text – all promote gear sales one way or another."

<Sigh>

Cat scan at 1:00.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

"I think that Brian’s point is a valid one. These books – whether the Fundamentals book or a PADI text – all promote gear sales one way or another."


Exactly...one way or another they both promote gear sales.

They do that in several different ways and in many circumstances the gear they promote is quite different.

Padi's OW manual is...well...an open water manual. Fundamentals isn't.

The PADI OW manual is a polished teaching tool...Fundamentals isn't.

Fundamentals is a guide to DIR...PADI's manual isn't.

I've never seen the Y's manual or NAUI's so I can't comment much on those.

But no way no how did I say that Brian meant that "all training manuals were the same."

...wouldn't be prudent!

SA

 

[SeaJay]

Custer once bubbled...

Sure is throwing me for a loop, I'm gonna get a cat scan first thing in the morning.

Lol!!! THAT was funny.

Newdiver, your response of, "nothing to scan" was a mean, personal attack... Totally inappropriate for what might otherwise be a useful discussion.

See, I avoided saying, "Skip the cat scan and head to the Stroke Treatment Center."

Disclaimer: I am not calling anyone an "s-word." I just thought it a well-timed and funny thing to say, that, of course, I would never say because of it's inflammatory nature. I thought that Custer might think that I was calling him an "s-word," which I would never do even if I felt he had an unsafe attitude (which I don't) or that you might feel that I was telling him to head to a Stroke Center because I was calling YOU an s-word... And he's come in contact with you.

Either way, I would never, ever say such an inflammatory and derrogatory remark. Even if it was true.