June 29 Diver Death at Casino Point in Catalina

[jandjdivers]

Have you heard any further news regarding the the scuba diver who died on Sunday? I have been reading your responses and can tell that you are as affected by what happened as I am. Any info would be great. I just keep thinking where was his buddy?

 

[DandyDon]

Have you heard any further news regarding the the scuba diver who died on Sunday? I have been reading your responses and can tell that you are as affected by what happened as I am. Any info would be great. I just keep thinking where was his buddy?

Were you there, Jan? I think it is currently accepted to have probly been a carediac event and the outcome would have been about the same in most settings, except he received fast and efficient rescue and medical aid far superior than he would have in most. I wouldn't want to live my life in a protective bubble and I would think the same could be said for anyone pursuing scuba training. I'm sure that the incident had to be traumatic for anyone who witnessed it and there's going to be that undeserved feeling of wishing one could do something to help when there was nothing more could be done. Padi's Rescue manual touches on Critical Incident Stress I think it's call, aka Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, but there's not a lot that can be said about recovery other than don't fall for the guilt, do talk it over with those you trust, and life goes on.

I'm older than any of y'all I think, and when I do go - that's how I'd rather go. I just don't want anyone getting hurt, ruining a vacation, or feeling guilty.

Best wishes to all who were there...

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I think it is currently accepted to have probly been a carediac event . . .

I'm going to get on my soapbox again and I don't want this to come sounding mean Don, but this is exactly the type of specualtion I referred to in my original post that needs to be avoided.

"Currently accepted" by whom? I was at the Coroner's office last night and they haven't even completed the autopsy yet. So where is your medical evidence coming from?

One of the rescuers reported to me that when they got to him, there was some kelp entanglement. How do we know this wasn't a case of entanglement/panic?

The gear (which is yet to be fully examined) is literally sitting two feet from me as I type this and I can tell you right now that there are already two equipment anomolies (not the air being turned off - that was done by the rescuers) that will need to be looked at and explained. Plus the ensuing discussion with members of the dive groups and rescuers may raise additional points that we'll want to address.

The point is that there are many possibilities right now and until we start looking at all of them and see which ones the evidence deems plausible and which ones don't stand up to scrutiny, you can't reach any preliminary conclusions, let alone definitive ones.

If you want to say "My guess would be and this is purely speculation" or something like that, that may be OK but you're still walking a fine line. But to state "It's currently accepted" is exactly the speculation-stated-as-fact that should be avoided in this types of discussions.

Off my soapbox and apologies if I've offended Don or anyone else.

 

[DandyDon]

Sorry Ken, and thanks. I thot I remembered that being said early in the thread altho that would have been but an initial speculation pending investigative outcome, and I may have remembered incorrectly. It seems that some who were there were pretty stressed here and I guess I overstepped myself again in trying to help with that.

 

[StephP]

Unless there was another scuba diving death at Catalina that day, then the diver that you're talking about was my grandfather, Sam Henley.

Here's a link to his obituary:
Ex-Air Force officer was kind and giving - San Bernardino County Sun

We're still in shock over the whole thing, and pretty confused as to why our family hasn't been able to reach the dive team that he was with on their shop phone or their personal phones, and why they haven't contacted our family after a week of waiting.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this, but I just thought I'd clarify as to who the diver was since it's a bit creepy seeing someone so close to me being talked about as the victim of an accident.

If anyone has any further info on what happened on the 29th, please e-mail me at ShibbNani@gmail.com. Thank you.

 

[DandyDon]

Unless there was another scuba diving death at Catalina that day, then the diver that you're talking about was my grandfather, Sam Henley.

Here's a link to his obituary:
Ex-Air Force officer was kind and giving - San Bernardino County Sun

We're still in shock over the whole thing, and pretty confused as to why our family hasn't been able to reach the dive team that he was with on their shop phone or their personal phones, and why they haven't contacted our family after a week of waiting.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this, but I just thought I'd clarify as to who the diver was since it's a bit creepy seeing someone so close to me being talked about as the victim of an accident.

If anyone has any further info on what happened on the 29th, please e-mail me at ShibbNani@gmail.com. Thank you.

Thanks for your post and the link, Steph. Sam sounds like he was quite a fellow to have in the family; I am sure you are proud to have had him for your granddad.

Discussion after a sad loss is inevitable of course, but the objective of this forum is only to learn from such so we may become safer divers. They may be discussing my accident here someday; I hope not, but if they do - I hope they learn as much as possible in protecting themselves. We do certainly want these discussions to be objective yet polite; condolences are not supposed to be posted here as they can emotionally charge a discussion at times - but that is seldom enforced as we certainly do care for a lost brother diver. We could post Sam's obituary in the Passings forum if you'd like...?

I could only speculate as to you're not getting any info from the dive team. I'm sure they all feel very badly; maybe the challenge of discussing a sad incident with family can be a big one.

 

[nereas]

I would think that the right thing to do would be to visit the family, describe the final moments, and convey one's regrets. It seems that any other course would be cowardly. The cowardly reality suggests fear of some kind of legal action as reprisal.

The lesson so far in all of this seems to be to choose your buddy carefully, or else be prepared to dive solo, inasmuch as cowards make a bad choice for a buddy.

Sorry Mr Curtis, if this seems like speculation to you.

 

[alaity47]

It's sad, but most dive professionals are advised not to talk to any family members or members of the press - at least not until AFTER they've talked to attorneys. I think there's just too much temptation to say things like "if only I'd XXX, your family member might be alive," or to speculate, all of which can result in ugly legal battles down the road.

I wouldn't blame the group for not contacting you, but the litigious society we live in for making it inadvisable that they do so.

I'm very sorry for your loss, and I hope that your family gets more details soon. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be not to know what happened.

 

[Dadvocate]

Nereas

I might be missing something in the tenor of your words here, so I will frame this in question form.

Are you suggesting that the dive team are cowards for covering their legal backs or that the punitive system that we live with that forces them to do so is itself cowardly? If it is the former, I think that it is unfair to label people who are scared by the potential damages that can come from exactly what Alaity points out. If it is the latter, well I would choice a different adjective… guilt-obsessed, scapegoating, or bloodthirsty perhaps.

And if your comment directed at Ken Kurtis was tongue and cheek, disregard the following. I don’t feel that Ken’s request for caution where speculation is concerned is that limiting. In fact, I don’t think he would have a problem with your interpretation in this case at all, namely because it doesn’t rely on the analysis of the facts in this case in order to be prudent or true.

Cheers!

 

[nereas]

Whenever I dive with a buddy, which is not too often, I watch that person closely, as if he/she were on a CCR and anything could go wrong at any time without warning. I make sure I know how to ditch their weight belt and gear, and how to get them back to the boat or shore.

If something went wrong, I would visit the family and give them a first hand account of what happened, for their own peace of mind. And I would assure them that I had done everything in my power.

If they chose to litigate, that is their right. There should be no fears from a trial by jury. I have a really good lawyer, too. Naturally, I would bring a counter-suit for the legal fees they were choosing to cause me.

You can spend your whole life quaking in your boots, or you can do the right thing. Life is full of choices. Your choices will demonstrate whether you are a coward or heroic.

Is that clear enough, now?