Jacket Style BCD Recommendations

[Mouth Breather old]

Hey P-Chick,

My daughter tried the Diva and liked it a lot. She also liked the Ladyhawk from Scubapro. In the end I bought the Zeagle Zena for her. She liked back inflate AND having some pockets.

You may find this hard to believe if you read the rants of one of the other posters on this thread, but diving a lot, having fun, and learning, is the more important than whatever gear you end up with (as long as it is safe).

It sounds like you are doing your homework and I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you choose.

 

[metridium]

Mouth Breather wrote...
Hmmm...did you think the "humorless, obstinate, exremists" refered to you? I don't think I mentioned you in the post.
Well if the BP fits....

Hmmm....resorts to ad hominem attacks when things aren't to his satisfaction....how likely is it that he threw some exquisite temper tantrums as a toddler?

"The child is the father of the man" - William Wordsworth

Mouth Breather wrote...
I think I made it pretty clear that I really like a BP if I'm diving doubles or wearing a thick wetsuit...but for the warm water diving I do I rarely wear more than a skin. And I found the BP less comfortable than a back inflate or jacket BC on bare skin. But still had fun on the dive.

Really? Where did you make that "pretty clear" in this thread?

Mouth Breather wrote...
Unlike you, I can have fun with virtually any safe gear combination.

If that's true, then why not dive the BP all the time and save the $$$ you blew on the jacket? You're Mr. "All-Diving-Is-Fun, No-Matter-What" aren't you? What's a little chafing compared to hundreds of dollars, after all?

Or could it just possibly be that you think you wouldn't have as much fun if you were "less comfortable" on the dive? Could you actually be saying that you can have more fun when you're using more appropriate gear?

That would be highly ironic, since that's what I've been saying all along.

Mouth Breather wrote...
I'm consider myself a good enough diver not to let any safe gear detract from the FUN of my dive. Are you?

I try not to let my ego get wrapped up in my diving....that's a very bad idea in my book.

Why anyone would want to introduce needless taskloading is beyond me....especially for the sake of egotism.

Mouth Breather wrote...
We keep going round and round on this...I don't doubt that you prefer only to dive with a BP no matter what the dive conditions. Good for you. But I can't understand people of your ilk that can't even admit to the possibility of having a good dive with anything other than a BP.

Reading comprehension wasn't your strongest point on those pesky standardized tests, was it?

Now try this: Sit down, take a deep breath, put on your thinking cap, and reread the following passage.

I'd consider it only if my backplate somehow didn't make the trip and I couldn't find a better alternative, and the diving would be worth the extra discomfort....

Pay close attention to the implications of "...worth the extra discomfort."

Now, what part of that didn't you understand?

 

[leadweight]

If I had a dollar for every time someone on this board recommended a backplate to a diver who does not want one or need one, I could spend the rest of my days diving in the pacific on the best boats and at the best dive resorts.

I find the amount of missplaced enthusiasm for backplates in the recreational diving venue to be absolutely unbelievable. Backplates are really uncomfortable when wearing thin or no exposure suit. They are a PITA to adjust, so much so that some BP users have different rigs for wet and dry diving. The 6# minimum balast of a SS BP is often too much for many applications, yet everyone buying a BP for single tank use seems to want SS. The Halcyon 36# Pioneer has a strong tendancy to push a diver forward on the surface, enough to faze most inexperienced divers. (By the way, a decent Jacket or back inflate BC can be purchased for less than the cost of this wing without the backplate.) Mounting a single on a BP places the tank far from the divers back which results in an awkward feeling that is increased by using an STA. The argument that a backplate is ideal for a beginner because the diver can go right into technical applications with it is pure BS because so few divers go technical, also see my note on the cost of the Pioneer wing above because you are going to need another wing and possibly a second BP to dive doubles anyway. The crotchstrap is a PITA. IMO, the only thing that a BP does well is doubles, and it does that really well.

 

[metridium]

leadweight wrote...
Backplates are really uncomfortable when wearing thin or no exposure suit.

Never an issue with my minimum exposure protection, a 3mm wetsuit, which I've used from Cozumel to the Coral Sea, both with BP and jacket BCs.

Others here report having no problems using them with skins or no exposure protection at all.

leadweight wrote...
They are a PITA to adjust

So was my drysuit the first time, but once customized, there was no need for further adjustment. I dive my BP in a 3mm and a TLS350 without making any changes other than tightening the belt a bit more with the 3mm.

leadweight wrote...
The 6# minimum balast of a SS BP is often too much for many applications, yet everyone buying a BP for single tank use seems to want SS.

I seriously doubt that's valid for "many applications". It may be too much if you're diving wet with a single steel tank or diving with no exposure protection, definitely. Aluminum or plastic backplates are cheap and readily available for those purposes. Using an AL tank instead of a steel one may be enough by itself.

leadweight wrote...
The Halcyon 36# Pioneer has a strong tendancy to push a diver forward on the surface.

How odd that I've never noticed that....I simply inflate, kick back into the 'easy chair' position, and set sail.

leadweight wrote...
(By the way, a decent Jacket or back inflate BC can be purchased for less than the cost of this wing without the backplate.)

My first BP/W cost $250.00, IIRC.

leadweight wrote...
Mounting a single on a BP places the tank far from the divers back which results in an awkward feeling that is increased by using an STA.

What awkward feeling? In any case, the new Halcyon wings require no STA.

leadweight wrote...
The argument that a backplate is ideal for a beginner because the diver can go right into technical applications with it is pure BS because so few divers go technical.

Really? It seems to be becoming quite popular lately.

leadweight wrote...
The crotchstrap is a PITA.

Not IMHO...but having a tank flopping around on a soft BC is.

 

[leadweight]

First of all, thanks for your feedback on the Undersea Explorer. The trip was great and the Coral Sea was wonderful. They also have a new chef who was really good.

However, IMO backplates are for technical diving. To use one for recreational diving is a personal choice which I respect. However, IMO most recreational divers, especially the traveling warm water types like me, will be a lot happier with something else. And as I am sure you know (this is for the benefit of those that don't), recreational diving means no overheads, 40M max, no planned deco and so forth.

What we would probably agree on is that the heavy, bulky overbuilt tech wanabee BC's don't cut it for real tech diving and are overstuffed (75# lift, 12# dry weight, 3# positive bouyancy) for recreational diving.

My personal choice is the Transpac 2 with a travel wing. It does a great job with a single tank, and I don't have any plans to use it with doubles. There are a few other good back inflate BC's out there, some of which are ladies models.

If anything, I think the dive industry has blown it with back inflate designs by marketing a lot of overbuilt tech wananbee BC's and not enough comfortable minimalist BC's. For this reason the BP's have tended to fill the void lately. The TP2 is the main alternative to a BP for those that want the functionality of a BP without what I see as the negatives for the single tank diver. OK, the TP2 has quick releases and a sh-pile of d-rings, but so what.

I don't expect you (or anyone else) to ditch their backplate because of anything I say. What a dull place this would be if we all thought the same thing.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Well, lessee what we have out there in the locker...
BP/Wing - yep
Pro QD jacket - yep
Transpac II - yep
Tropical Explorer jacket - yep
My first jacket - Techni-Pro - still there
32 year old hard pack - still there too...
I prefer the BP/Wing for heavy doubles
I prefer the Transpac II/Rec wing for light doubles and, with a travel wing for deep/deco with a big single - and for spearfishing.
I prefer the Pro-QD for instructing OW.
I prefer the Explorer for vacation on Bonaire.
I prefer the old hardpack for cleaning out the pool.
And I still use the old Technipro for blackwater working dives and artifact hunting.
If anyone's really interested in why I have accumulated all these BCs over the years or in why I choose one over the other for a particular application I'll be more than happy to share.
But if you want to second guess me or tell me I ought to do it differently... well.. I ain't interested.
Rick

 

[metridium]

leadweight wrote...
First of all, thanks for your feedback on the Undersea Explorer. The trip was great and the Coral Sea was wonderful. They also have a new chef who was really good.

Glad to hear you had a great time! Did you lot get the see the nautilus, or did Tracy forget to lock the traps again?

leadweight wrote...
However, IMO backplates are for technical diving. To use one for recreational diving is a personal choice which I respect. However, IMO most recreational divers, especially the traveling warm water types like me, will be a lot happier with something else.

I used to be one of those traveling WW types, but I'm not sure what you mean about BPs in that regard....packing or padding?

I've taken mine on several Caribbean and transcon trips with no fuss. The new BP fits disassembled in my carryon, along with other gear. Ditto for the older one, except for the STA which went in the checked luggage. Can't say the same for my girlfriend's old BCD, which was quite bulky and cumbersome.

I didn't take my old BP along when I went down under, though. I was gone for a couple months, and surface gear took up too much of my luggage allowance for much besides wetsuit, regs, mask, and computers. How much were you able to take?

As for padding, it may be distinct to the individual. As I wrote in an earlier post, I always dive with at least a 3mm, so we're not strictly comparable.

OTOH, I wear mine for transportation purposes around divesites and up the apartment stairs fully loaded, with only a T-shirt and shorts for padding. I haven't had any chafing problems - despite webbing being much stiffer when dry vs. saturated - though I did get a couple bruises the first time I tried walking around with doubles. YMMV.

leadweight wrote...
What we would probably agree on is that the heavy, bulky overbuilt tech wanabee BC's don't cut it for real tech diving and are overstuffed (75# lift, 12# dry weight, 3# positive bouyancy) for recreational diving.

I definitely agree about the overstuffing, but I'll have to wait a bit before I'm qualified to talk about real tech diving.

leadweight wrote...
My personal choice is the Transpac 2 with a travel wing. It does a great job with a single tank, and I don't have any plans to use it with doubles.

Do you prefer it because of the padding and the pockets?

BTW, what sort of exposure protection were you using on the GBR?

leadweight wrote...
If anything, I think the dive industry has blown it with back inflate designs by marketing a lot of overbuilt tech wananbee BC's and not enough comfortable minimalist BC's. For this reason the BP's have tended to fill the void lately.

I don't know enough to say, but that sounds plausible.

leadweight wrote...
I don't expect you (or anyone else) to ditch their backplate because of anything I say. What a dull place this would be if we all thought the same thing.

It's been a pleasure discussing this with you.

 

[metridium]

Rick Murchison wrote
But if you want to second guess me or tell me I ought to do it differently... well.. I ain't interested.

Dude, wouldn't dream of it!

But I will leave you with one parting thought:

a wonderful little thing called...

E-bay.

 

[leadweight]

I wore a 3 mil in the Coral Sea. Tracy has been gone for a while, we hauled up 3 Nautilus thingies.

I have found the TP2 to be much more comfortable than a BP. BTW, the TP2 has no pockets unless you add them. Yes, the padding helps. The TP2 holds a single securely on my back (and closer to my back tan a BP can do it) withoud a crotch strap.

When I used a BP the result was sore underarms. I am not the first person to have this experience. Just because some people can stand that stiff weight belt webbing over nothing more than a T shirt, it does not mean we all can. Warm water=minimal exposure protection. AS for packing, The TP2 is definitely more compact and lighter (if SS) than a BP.

In fresh water a SS BP with STA caused me to be overweighted wearing a full 3 mil and a 3/2 shortie. That is why I think AL is better, it also costs less.

Ebay is great. I should sell my computer

 

[metridium]

leadweight wrote...
AS for packing, The TP2 is definitely more compact and lighter (if SS) than a BP.

Well, I didn't buy the SS plate for its lightness...

leadweight wrote...
In fresh water a SS BP with STA caused me to be overweighted wearing a full 3 mil and a 3/2 shortie. That is why I think AL is better, it also costs less.

Wow, that's a lot of buoyancy to overcome. Were you using a steel tank or any lead?