isolator open or closed?

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Backing off will only make things worse...

Yes stay alert, don't be the second diver to be in trouble, but if you stay close and calm, you can resolve the situation...

It all depends on how confortable you are, but as buddys, we should be there when the other is in trouble...
 
dennisgrimm once bubbled...
weird... the pic I uploaded isn't showing
Butt mounted battery canister... easily damaged, impossible to untangle.

Valve guards... More likely to cause entanglement than the bare valve. Like a bull-bar on a pickup, the answer to contact with the overhead is not to mount a bumper... the answer is to improve diving skills so as to avoid contact with the overhead.

Looks like a metal-on-metal connection to the reel. And if the reel gets tangled on something and the bolt snap jams?

There are things in every diving philosophy that others will disagree with, but it seems that some of these things are being held onto by some agencies in defiance of logic. Some might claim simply to spite those in other agencies who frown on them.

Start here:
http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equipmentimages.htm
and scroll through those pages to get an idea of another example that works best for me.
 
gilou28 once bubbled...
I was not referring to breathing, but to the "leveling" of both tank's pressure....

If it's just a question of lag ;-)
Depending on your breathing pattern, your tanks will have double the time to even out compared to you trying to draw through a cracked valve.

Think of it as a slow fill rate on the primary tank :)

That's another thing that's always bothered me about opening the isolator with one tank full and one empty (or significantly lower)... the air is going to rush through the manifold and SLAM into the empty tank. Being in the water, and the adiabatic cooling, will help prevent the primary tank from overheating, but that slug of gas can't be good for the metal can it?
 
Gilou28:

Read a bit further, I answer both questions (The first being the one you didn't ask :wacko: )


Rich:

Yeah, but the noise sounds cool!!!

Just what you want to be doing at 200ft, 150ft inside a wreck!!!

Think about that!!!
 
DeepScuba once bubbled...
Yeah, but the noise sounds cool!!!
Just what you want to be doing at 200ft, 150ft inside a wreck!!!
Think about that!!!
Yup... if you're going to blow an o-ring, burst disk, or damage a reg, that's when it's going to happen.

Hmm... independents are sounding better and better :D
 
dennisgrimm once bubbled...
So he doesn't jump me and take my primary. In retrospect, that isn't such a big deal if you are already offering you primary eh?

Go back and read chapter 5 of your rescue book. You'll probably find that you read it differently now that you have a little more experience.

Hint: The problem with a diver in distress (on the surface or under water) is to take control without making yourself a victim. Question is how?

Something to consider in this is that most divers in panic under water are probably not in panic because they need your secondary. There are a million and one reasons why people panic but in the vast majority of cases it isn't because the tank was empty. They panic from free-flows, from all kinds of monsters-in-the-dark fantasies, from simple equipment problems like masks that get water in them, from flooded regs, from ears that won't clear, from suit squeeze, from cramps, from overexertion (hyperventilation)....you name it.

If a diver in that situation is hell-bent on going up then you won't stop it. YOu may be able to delay it enough that he takes a breath before going too far but that's about it. You need to watch the reg. If there are bubbles coming out (from breathing) then that's good. If there aren't then you need to try holding them down or delaying the ascent until bubbles come out (until they start to breathe again). or, if you think they're out of air, until you can get them to accept your secondary (by force if necessary, especially if they've rejected their own reg in the process). Chances are unless you're very alert that you'll be grabbing for fins on the way up. It always happens faster than you think.

That's what full-blown panic looks like under water most of the time in my experience and these divers can really use your help. If you don't help them, expecially the ones holding their breath, the serious injury or death will probably be the result.

And if he isn't going up but he *is* panicking (rare) you may need to approach from the side or in any case away from where he cannot grab you with both hands. In offering the longhose, for example, hold it out to him on the approach. Take the hose in your right hand just where it goes in to the reg, flip it over your head and turn the reg so it's facing him in the right orientation to go straight into his mouth. Chances are if he has a regulator malfunction he'll focus on the reg you're offering and you can lead him slightly to your right and take the cylinder valve or his BCD strap with your left hand.

Personally I go for the BCD strap on his right side with my left hand (ie "straight" across). This is also the way PADI teaches AAS with the octopus. With this grip I stay out of reach of both his hands (ie on his right) and I can easily turn or push him away from me or toward me or quickly reach the cylinder valve to manoeuvre myself around behind them. This grip also leaves me with a hand free to deal with regs and inflators and because of the longhose (one of many advantages) I can move behind a panicked diver on this side without pulling the reg out of their mouth whether horizontal or vertical. Finally, don't forget that you can grip his legs/tank or whatever with your knees to get a firmer hold if you must (this works especially well on the surface).

Often times the simple act of making contact (firmly grabbing a BCD strap, for example and making eye contact) actually helps things to descalate, especially if the diver can breathe (again). In many cases of divers experiencing panic feelings they are able to regain control under water if you just pause and breathe together. This simple act of making contact and offering help may be all the difference between a close call and AGE. Backing off and taking whatever perceived help you can offer away from a diver on the edge of panic may also make the difference between a close call and AGE but in the other direction....... :eek:

And finally a diver who suddenly mauls you for your reg (for example) has already made contact :) running away is pointless at this point so you need control. REach for the tank valve and pull yourself behind them while you grab your bungied backup. With the longhose this will work. With the shorthose this situation can be more problematic. You may have to locate your own octopus while fighting him off if he won't surrender the reg.

It's become a bit of a long post but you should recognise this from Rescue. I'm sure a few others will jump in with more ideas but these things work for me. Personally I know I couldn't live with it if I denied help to another diver and they died or suffered a serious injury because I was too afraid to try taking control. One final note. There is obviously a line you shouldn't go over. In that sense I can see your instructor's point to a certain extent. You don't want to make yourself a victim. I hope this post doesn't make you do something reckless but I hope you can also see that there are alternatives to running away from a distressed diver.

R..
[edit]
P.S. One more thing. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 
A friend who also dives with his isolator closed offered this to me:

http://www.divernet.com/technique/0102twins.htm

I find it interesting that they found the two tanks drained equally fast when the isolator was open just a 1/2 turn. Guess that rules out that theory. It would be easier to close though.

I also find it interesting that they recomend the use of an isolating manifold for anything larger that 80's (12L), don't use one for anything smaller than 80's, and be quick if you are going to an isolating manifold on 80's.

Any comments?
 
dennisgrimm and others on Scuba Board

I want to thank you for reaffirming the fact that the time, effort and money I have spent on my GUE training, continual practice and equipment configuration has not been a waste. To me it seems very unbelievable that anyone would dive and configure their gear in the various manners that have been listed in this thread.

Good luck and thanks for the "reality check"

CrazyC
 
And most of us non-GUE people here, think the same thing.
 
crazyc once bubbled...


....To me it seems very unbelievable that anyone would dive and configure their gear in the various manners that have been listed in this thread....

CrazyC

If none of the mentionned configuration (with/without isolator, half opened/completely opened, upside down) works for you, can you please describe the way you are configuring your doubles ???

Humm... I'm always opened to good suggestions....:boom:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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