Isn't scuba supposed to be fun too?

[DevonDiver]

It'd be rather dull if every forum here on Scubaboard was full of posts that all reiterated the fun people were having:

"I dove with split fins today.... it was fun!"
"Glad to hear you had so much fun!"

"I did a solo, deep air bounce dive last week.... it was fun!"
"Glad to hear it was fun... keep up the good work!"

"I want to buy a BCD... which one is the most fun?"
"They are all fun.... buy whatever you like... and have fun!"

"I ran out of air on a dive last month and ascended with a spare air... I only got 2 breaths before it ran out."
"That sounds like fun!"


To be honest, I think that whole "you're gonna die!" mentality is a thing of the past (except in the technical forums, where is may be an accurate response). Those that tend to use language like that are generally scorned now-a-days...

There's a big difference between "you're gonna die!" and an informed, reasonable debate that compares alternative perspectives in an attempt to isolate potential 'best practice' methodology. That's how I see most of the debates here.

DIR isn't the 'only' formal methodology within the diving community... there are others. There are also plenty of informal methodologies.... call them 'opinions'. In common with most debates... and science... it is normal to 'attack' a proposed methodology/principle... applying destructive reasoning in an attempt to identify credibility and value. I see that here on Scubaboard a lot also. That's a healthy process IMHO.

For those that do enjoy analytical debate... then opinions exist to be challenged.... or defended. Events exist to be assessed... to be learned from. All towards the greater end of developing their knowledge.... and developing potential methodologies for the refinement of diving. That isn't an 'internet phenomenon' - such critical thinking, appraisal and debate has always existed off-line. The internet (as originally intended) just opens up such debate to a wider audience and participation group, without geographical restriction.

Is everyone interested in cutting-edge development of 'best practice' methods? No, of course not.

Is everyone interested in going beyond the basic, prudent, teachings of general scuba training? No, of course not.

However, there are people who do... and the internet, Scubaboard in particular, enables them to reach out and communicate, share and critique to their heart's content.

 

[TSandM]

You know, fun is a very personal thing.

I watch some local divers drill and drill and drill . . . they appear to be having fun, but I would get bored and frustrated doing what they are doing.

I watch other divers scooter. They scooter places where there is nothing to see except silt. They scooter long distances, sometimes at great depths that require an annoying amount of equipment, in order to see silt and the odd ratfish. I don't understand it, but they are having fun.

A whole different group likes diving the airplane wrecks in Lake Washington. I have done those wrecks. They are at technical depths, so you have to spring for helium to dive them. The visibility in the lake is interesting . . . the water just gets thicker and thicker until it's finally "bottom". It's not unusual to inspect the planes 18 inches at a time; when you can see several feet, the viz is "epic". Not my cup of tea, but they love doing it.

I have read reports here of people doing dives in extremely strong current, where you hook in and watch what flies by. Again, not my cup of tea, but people pay big sums of money to do those dives.

Fun is personal. I personally like being good at things, so I have worked very hard to become good at diving. I found that, the better I got, the more fun the diving I liked to do became, so that was big positive reinforcement for working harder to get better.

I think it's really hard to stand in a corner and try to define what is fun and what isn't, because we are all different, and find joy in different things.

 

[DevonDiver]

Are you my Daddy?

Only on a friday night, when wearing his cowboy costume and leather chaps.... at least, that's what I heard

 

[diverrex]

My wife is a warm water only diver so she only does 1 or 2 trips a year, maybe 15 - 30 dives. I consider her a safe diver. She definitely has fun diving. I think she uses her hands too much while diving and she swims a lot in a not very horizontal position. Some would consider that bad diving form. I used to mention it to her but I no longer do because she just didn't care about changing, she was having fun diving the way she was. While she might not have the best form I don't think those characteristics cause her to be any less safe than other divers. And I'm really not sure what she would gain by changing other than conforming to what many of us think is proper form. Some would say she would be a more efficient diver and would use less air, but she already only uses about half the air I use, and I'm not bad.

We go horse trail riding one or twice a year or so. We even have our own cowboy boots and hats, we can make a horse do a little more than pure beginners, and we feel comfortable on a horse. We have lots of fun every time we do it. I'm sure if we had more training and rode a lot more we would enjoy it even more. But with work, family commitments, cultural activities and our primary sporting activities of scuba and hiking we don't commit more time to horses. Should that mean we should give up riding horses and pass up the fun we do have when we go just because we are not experts?

Every diver should be a safe diver and respectful of the environment, but I don't think one has to be an expert to have fun and enjoy it. I've been on tropical boats with lots of vacation divers that don't know what Scubaboard is, don't really think about diving much while not on vacation, don't know what a BP/W is, a long hose primary, horizontal trim, etc etc. But they are safe divers, they are having fun and I don't mind diving with them.

 

[Davemohio]

One of my instructors starts every class with writing on a chalkboard:

Diving: Have fun! Be safe.... Burned in my memory. Simple words.

Most divers on the planet are vacation divers. I used to be one.

But I noticed on a recent poll on SB how MUCH/often folks here dive. Most of us love to just plain dive.

After 15 years of diving I still have a jacket BC and an old AL80. Nobody I dive with seems to care.
IF a relative I lent money to ever pays me back, THAT will change.

I don't care where or with whom someone has trained. Diversity is a good thing. We can learn from each other.

 

[buddhasummer]

It'd be rather dull if every forum here on Scubaboard was full of posts that all reiterated the fun people were having:

"I dove with split fins today.... it was fun!"
"Glad to hear you had so much fun!"

"I did a solo, deep air bounce dive last week.... it was fun!"
"Glad to hear it was fun... keep up the good work!"

"I want to buy a BCD... which one is the most fun?"
"They are all fun.... buy whatever you like... and have fun!"

"I ran out of air on a dive last month and ascended with a spare air... I only got 2 breaths before it ran out."
"That sounds like fun!"


To be honest, I think that whole "you're gonna die!" mentality is a thing of the past (except in the technical forums, where is may be an accurate response). Those that tend to use language like that are generally scorned now-a-days...

There's a big difference between "you're gonna die!" and an informed, reasonable debate that compares alternative perspectives in an attempt to isolate potential 'best practice' methodology. That's how I see most of the debates here.

DIR isn't the 'only' formal methodology within the diving community... there are others. There are also plenty of informal methodologies.... call them 'opinions'. In common with most debates... and science... it is normal to 'attack' a proposed methodology/principle... applying destructive reasoning in an attempt to identify credibility and value. I see that here on Scubaboard a lot also. That's a healthy process IMHO.

For those that do enjoy analytical debate... then opinions exist to be challenged.... or defended. Events exist to be assessed... to be learned from. All towards the greater end of developing their knowledge.... and developing potential methodologies for the refinement of diving. That isn't an 'internet phenomenon' - such critical thinking, appraisal and debate has always existed off-line. The internet (as originally intended) just opens up such debate to a wider audience and participation group, without geographical restriction.

Is everyone interested in cutting-edge development of 'best practice' methods? No, of course not.

Is everyone interested in going beyond the basic, prudent, teachings of general scuba training? No, of course not.

However, there are people who do... and the internet, Scubaboard in particular, enables them to reach out and communicate, share and critique to their heart's content.

Lucky that is not then eh...

 

[t-mac]

I think the over-arching issue here is respecting the opinions of others and that what is "right" for someone is relative. I seek more information and more training (formal, from SB and other places) for a number of reasons. Yes, want to be a safer diver, but I also enjoy the intellectual aspects of the sport. I love the physics, chemistry, physiology and, yes, the debates about gear configurations, safety, etc. I find here. And I don't think the point of this thread is to quash real debates, as has been suggested. In fact, the I'm-right-you're wrong attitude taken by some posters, IMO, is a feeble attempt to stifle the debate we all claim to value. In my experience, the louder and more forceful someone puts forth their opinion, the less interested they are in a genuine debate. And how do personal attacks further the debate? These are logical fallacies designed to avoid a debate. The OP was right about some people acting like parents in that parents instructing their kids, in my view, generally are not looking for a debate: this is the way the world is, learn to like it. But why? Just because.

In my work, I encounter many brilliant people who are absolutely convinced that they are right and there is no other way to do thing than the way they do them. My observation is that the more zealously held the conviction, the less emprical evidence is generally behind the claim. I think we are fortunate that diving is such a safe sport, but the (good) thing about this is that there is no way to prove that any of us is right. There is absolutely no evidence that one agency produces safer divers or that GUI/DUI methods make safer divers. I don't care who you are, how many dives you have, what equipment you use or what agency you may belong to or have been thrown out of. All you have to offer me is your opinion, based on your personal experience and it is up to me to decide what to do with that. Yes, I have the privilege of my own arrogance in believing what I do is right for me. On the other hand, if I have something to offer you, I do so because I want you to have the benefit of my experience to decide if it is right for you. I won't look down on you if you don't take it (well, okay, maybe I will, but I won't chastize you for it!).

The point has been made many times before, but I also believe we suffer from the written medium. It is much easier to adopt an uncivil tone, or to in fact lack civility, when writing on the internet. I seriously doubt that this thread would even exist if we were all sitting in a room together having these discussions.

So, my bottom line and what I think the OP is getting at is keeping the debate intellectually honest. Just because we can now use the words "ass" and "dick" (thank you moderators!), does not mean that we have to.

Thanks for listening, mom and dad!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I teach those things too. I give credit to my change in teaching methods to what I have learned here. But, you don't see, commonly anyway, instructors from the BIG scuba agencies advocating a change in teaching methods to better teach those skills.

I've seen instructors like Boulderjohn, Peter Guy and others not only advocate a change in teaching methods, but successfully get their agency (PADI) to buy into that change. And long before that, I learned a great deal of what I teach now from another long-time PADI instructor in our area who is, to this day, one of the finest recreational dive instructors I've ever known.

They're out there ... where the mainstream agencies fail is that they've set a very low bar for entry into the instructor corps ... and an equally low bar for what you "have" to teach. I think the vast majority of instructors out there truly want to produce well-trained divers ... some of them just don't know how to. And just like other stereotypes, it only takes a few to give the whole lot a bad odor.

Sure scuba is supposed to be fun. It would be so much more fun for everyone involved if so many people didn't have the attitude of "just teach me the bare minumum of what I need to know at the lowest cost you can offer it and let me go play." (Not directed at anyone in particular).

I think people tend to have unrealistic expectations about what a standard scuba class can provide. Yes, many people look for an entry-level scuba class that's as inexpensive and as short as they can get ... and they expect it to provide them with solid diving skills. It won't happen, except perhaps for the rare few who are able to pick it up quickly and easily. Even the best instructors can only do so much in an environment where they're given a few hours of pool time and four checkout dives ... and when you combine that with a typical class of 6 to 8 students, it only takes one to chew up 80% of the instructor's time just trying to get him or her through the required skills. Realistically, what you end up with is an introduction to learning with an expectation that you'll improve as you dive ... which wouldn't be so bad if only the instructor had set that expectation from the get-go ... because many people come out of the class thinking they learned everything they need to know.

People often ask me what's the hardest skill in scuba diving to learn. I tell 'em the hardest thing to learn is how to just relax ... because that takes a certain comfort level with your skills that you can only get by diving. Some take longer than others to get it ... some never really do. And that's what so many of us "parental" types are trying so hard to get across to the newer divers among us. Once you reach the point where you can relax, then diving becomes a lot more fun. But you have to put some effort into getting there ... and that's what we're trying to encourage those newer divers to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[FireInMyBones]

After reading through the many responses and threads of similar report here on SB the last few months, I've realized that I am toning down my "enthusiasm" for being so staunch on how I think others should dive. I know what way is best for me. I have a loving wife to make it home to. I enjoy every dive I go on, even those that scare the crap out of me because something happened.
I have yet to take Fundies and though I hope to one day, I can not speak like I have. I am now a Dive Master with SDI and I am seeing things in class that scare me, but I have to trust my instructors. They've been doing this for quite some time. Humanity has survived for a while and I'm sure we'll live on for a while longer.
When I was in youth orchestra, I hated to practice but loved to play. Sports, I hated the games, but loved to play. Diving, I love to practice, play, and train. It fits a certain nitch for me.
Rather than spending my time arguing, I hope that I can be one of the many I see on here offering advice that is useful, but open ended enough to allow for the person making the decision to have the final say. I know I have much to learn. Doesn't everyone? So rather than preaching DIR, SDI, or some other agency, I'll just preach what is becoming more and more important to me: the Gospel of Christ, love in the midst of a dying world.

 

[JamesK]

People dive for fun. If it wasn't fun no one would dive. People come to Scubaboard to talk about that fun. They come here to share pictures, experiences, and talk about the latest greatest. They ask questions. Those questions get answered. Sometimes they get answered in a way that people may not agree with. Get over it! If you don't want to read people opinions, don't ask the questions, don't click the links, and don't sign on to SB! If you are here asking for opinions, accept that fact that you are going to get a wide variety of opinions. If we all had the same answer to the same questions, why the hell would we even be here?!