Isn't scuba supposed to be fun too?

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...//...See, the neat thing is, there is only one way to shoot a gun, shoot a deer, shoot a camera... until someone tells you another way. :) ...//...

Especially true for me. I learned to dive by falling off of New Jersey dive boats and training with public safety divers. Then I took cave class and found out just how much I didn't know about an under-appreciated (by me) set of diving skills. So now, I'm actively attending to streamlining my rig, attending to buoyancy, and improving my trim in order to better appreciate my A-game, wreck diving. Full circle.
 
Nothing ... lots of people use them and love them. I started out with a pair of Apollo Biofins, and loved them too ... until I reached a point in my diving where they were not the appropriate tool for the job I wanted to do.

What one needs to realize is that like most things they have advantages and drawbacks. When people point out the drawbacks, it's inevitably taken by some as a knock on the fin. It's usually not ... but rather just someone pointing out that they're not the panacea they're often marketed as being. Sometimes the person pointing that out is someone like myself, who enjoyed them in the limited capacity they're useful in, and recognizing in the person I'm replying to someone who wants to take their diving beyond those limitations. But rather than taking it in that context, some people ... usually people who own split fins ... want to take it personally. Can't help it ... like a lot of equipment, split fins work well for the recreational diver who doesn't want to work that hard, who isn't going to be pushing heavy loads, who wants a fin that's easy to kick (perhaps someone who cramps easily or isn't in great shape) ... and for that person, split fins are the appropriate choice. If you want to learn some precision kicks ... like helicopter or back kicks ... splits aren't the optimal choice. Oh, you can make them helicopter OK ... I did, anyway ... but not as easily as a good, stiff blade fin. It's the wrong tool for that job. Back kicks ... well, I keep reading here on SB where people say they can do them in splits ... I never could, and I've yet to actually see someone do it. So I'm skeptical about the claim.

But expressing those limitations aren't a knock on the fin ... it's nothing more than a recognition that different styles are better for some things than others. That said, there's also a lot of misinformation about splits ... that they create silt, for example. Sure they do ... if you overkick them, which is easy to do in a fin that doesn't offer much resistance. But if you bend your knees to get the fin up off the bottom, and keep your fins inside the slipstream, you won't silt with them. I demonstrated this to a student wearing splits less than two weeks ago, in fact ... and in an area where a stay thought tends to produce silt.

What needs to happen in these conversations is that people need to stop taking things personally ... and people who have no experience with the equipment should just kick back and let those who do talk about it. But that's a lot of expectation for internet conversation ... so as with most things, it's useful to have several grains of salt handy when you engage in these discussions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


Thanks Bob I really wanted to know, didn't take it personal, I have a pair and they are not so good in heavy current/surges. I was thinking about getting a pair of SP seawing nova's. I'm going to do some drift diving in West Palm Beach this weekend. So I will be having fun :stirpot:
 
Until I came on Scuba Board I never knew there were diving philosophies. Meet a lot of divers in my time but there was not a philosopher among them, I was just lucky I guess. I have no idea what the differences are between them but I have seen a few here push their idea of what is right to the exclusion of everything else. In my opinion the person who tells you they know it all and the only way to do something is their way, is usually wrong on both counts. I have worked as a diver so when I dive for fun it is going to be easy, low impact and laid back. I usually choose to dive with newer divers when I am on a charter as they are the ones doing they type of diving I prefer.
 
There is one difference between scuba diving and little league baseball - there are not that many ways to kill yourself playing little league baseball.

No question there is an inherent danger in scuba, and that if you are not careful you can and will drown. I take diving safety very seriously and part of my personal diving education is to be a safe diver myself and a safe dive buddy. Training certifications are like driving permits, they teach you what you need to know but you need to put in the time and gain actual experience.

My dive training organization of choice to date has been PADI. Despite all the concerns that they are a large corporate entity and have set up a modular approach that pumps out large numbers of poorly trained divers I like their approach. I personally like learning with the smaller time commitments and the ability to add specialties at my pace. I know instructors here think that many divers should have more skills and that the time commitment to do so is not much more and would produce better divers. But, some of the skills we discuss to be a good buddy are actually some of the core basics of OW certification. Good predive routine, good buddy check, make sure your equipment is in good working condition, careful air management, stay close to your buddy. All basic skills.

I like the diversity of opinions here on Scubaboard. I like to hear about how other divers approach certain situations. I like to hear other people's experiences and opinions with certain types of gear and equipment. But as an intelligent adult (at least I'd like to think of myself as one!) it is up to me to decide which opinions I like and agree with and which ones I don't. It is also up to me as a mature adult not to answer questions or respond to other in a rude or demeaning fashion.

Scuba diving is like skiing and golf in that they are equipment dependent as much as they are skills. And we all have our own opinions to which dive gear we like, and what type of configurations we like. But I see a lot of new divers asking questions regarding BC's and fins and get answers like you need a backplate with wings and split fins are bad. To me and my opinion it's like telling a new golfer that they need to buy blades so they can grow into them even though that may be more than they actually need. I don't dive caves, I don't plan on diving doubles, and I don't dive that deep very often. I know that I am a very consertative recreational diver.

As a recreational diver usually no deeper that 70-80 feet I don't need to bungee my octopus. My split fins do just fine. I don't practice frog kicks and a standard flutter kick does just fine. I am comfortable with my skills, always dive to my training, and try and stay close to my buddy. My vacation diving friends don't really dive where silt is a problems. Are respectful to the reef, stay off the coral, and don't harass the marine life. They just don't dive very gracefully, don't always hold a horizontal trim, can use awkward looking kicks, and often use their hands trying to hold their buoyancy.

But we are having a good time.

Have fun, dive safe.

Smile, it beats frowning.
Laugh, it beats crying.
Love, it beats hating.
 
Thanks Bob I really wanted to know, didn't take it personal, I have a pair and they are not so good in heavy current/surges. I was thinking about getting a pair of SP seawing nova's. I'm going to do some drift diving in West Palm Beach this weekend. So I will be having fun :stirpot:

A friend of mine dives those Seawings ... funny looking things, but they handled the current in the Maldives nicely ... and we had a lot of current there to handle ...

Dennis-1-1.jpg


EagleRay-1-1.jpg


... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Ugh, ok so everyone is entitled to their opinions right? So here's mine: you don't need an excuse for poor skills. You don't need justifications for poor skills either. If you are happy with poor skills, then good, you can stop there. You don't have to go out of your way to justify them to the extent of being sarcastic to those who promotes good diving skills. Sure they are having fun with poor skills, but having fun is not an excuse for not wanting to be a good diver. As someone once said, the kids playing the little leagues are definitely having fun, but being able to hit the ball and win is sure a lot more fun than just taking a turn.

If you have not tried it yet, don't mock them.


Just over the weekend, I have to calm a new diver who got certified last year when her regulator (first stage) failed at 60ft and wanted to bolt to the surface. I donated my long hose (thank goodness for my longhouse so I don't have to be in her face), got to my necklace EASILY, while holding on to her hands so she knows im there with her while I bring her to the surface calmly and slowly, completing all stops. Like many divers, she didn't see the need for my kind of configuration,laughing it off as "overkill", until where she experienced herself, as a victim, how much easier it was when the rescuer has a long hose and necklace. And yes, she is switching after that.

So in short, if you are comfortable, stick with it but don't mock those who does. In my experience (everyone is different), I got more resistance from people who DON'T dive with the longhose/necklace when I have one than those who does when I didn't.
 
Ugh, ok so everyone is entitled to their opinions right? So here's mine: you don't need an excuse for poor skills. You don't need justifications for poor skills either. If you are happy with poor skills, then good, you can stop there. You don't have to go out of your way to justify them to the extent of being sarcastic to those who promotes good diving skills. Sure they are having fun with poor skills, but having fun is not an excuse for not wanting to be a good diver. As someone once said, the kids playing the little leagues are definitely having fun, but being able to hit the ball and win is sure a lot more fun than just taking a turn.

If you have not tried it yet, don't mock them.


Just over the weekend, I have to calm a new diver who got certified last year when her regulator (first stage) failed at 60ft and wanted to bolt to the surface. I donated my long hose (thank goodness for my longhouse so I don't have to be in her face), got to my necklace EASILY, while holding on to her hands so she knows im there with her while I bring her to the surface calmly and slowly, completing all stops. Like many divers, she didn't see the need for my kind of configuration,laughing it off as "overkill", until where she experienced herself, as a victim, how much easier it was when the rescuer has a long hose and necklace. And yes, she is switching after that.

So in short, if you are comfortable, stick with it but don't mock those who does. In my experience (everyone is different), I got more resistance from people who DON'T dive with the longhose/necklace when I have one than those who does when I didn't.

What is a long hose and necklace?
 
Wasn't mocking, nor trying to justify poor skills.

Winning is more fun than losing. I do remember telling the little league kids just have fun, but remember it's more fun to win.

But in the grand scheme of things, even those with poor scuba skills can have fun. We shouldn't make fun or belittle them because they look clumsy or choose to dive with an Air 2.
 
But in the grand scheme of things, even those with poor scuba skills can have fun. We shouldn't make fun or belittle them because they look clumsy or choose to dive with an Air 2.

No one made fun of anyone, someone just got sensitive. Again, while I concur that even divers with poor skills can have fun, I'm just saying that fun should not be an excuse for not being a better diver or seek out training that goes beyond what was conventionally accepted.

---------- Post added May 22nd, 2012 at 02:02 PM ----------

What is a long hose and necklace?

Its part of a hogarthian set up. Google it ;)
 

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