Is there room for no nonsense training?

[DCBC]

The goal is to pass the Instructor test. Does the instructor candidate get any more points for being (extra) well trained? It is hard to imagine that you can provide all theis extra training for the same price as someone who provides exactly what s needed to allow the instructor to simply pass the evaluation.

Would candidates be willing to pay more when the final outcome (certification as an instructor) would be the same outcome.

I suppose that's my question. Once upon a time, apprentices trained for years under sword masters in Japan. Industry spits out Katana copies by the thousands, yet there are still those who want to learn these skills.

 

[DCBC]

I'd say the only instructors out there delivering quality are the ones who are in my position. They have well paying day jobs that cover the expense of being a scuba instructor and they are in the game for one reason only... to give back.

You make some excellent points. I understand the income thing. Big Oil pays me $3000 a day as a Consultant not because I'm worth it, but because they desire a level of confidence before spending millions. Much of my current role isn't productive, but a word here or there can save costly mistakes, or shorten project time and time is money.

If someone wanted to start a business, then it would be worth their time and investment to be trained properly. I agree however, if they only want it quick and cheap, they get what they pay for, but it's enough if you're in the roles you have described.

Thanks for the good input.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

At any level in scuba there are a percentage of people who will pay good money purely to gain the knowledge and skills that the "minimum" standards won't provide. I found this out offering classes as an independent instructor. I didn't advertise ... except through word of mouth and talking about things on Internet forums. And yet over a period of time I ended up with more students than I could reasonably handle. Those students came from a broad spectrum of backgrounds. The only thing they had in common was a desire to improve and a willingness to work at it.

I suspect it's no different at the instructor level. Those who have a desire to be at the top of their game will seek out the experts who can help them develop the tools they need to do so.

Just be up-front about what you provide, how you provide it, what your expectations of your students are, and how much you charge for it.

It's like the old movie ... build it, and they will come. The best part is, if people know what's gonna be expected of them, you'll end up only attracting the motivated ones who are worth teaching.

Best of luck ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

You can't teach what you don't know.

Teaching what ever you want is fine by PADI. That is as long as:

(a) you don't evaluate the student base on that material for pass or fail

(b) if you want to take on the personal liability, which few people with any brains are willing to do.

There is a difference between quality training and unnecessary training.

 

[DCBC]

Teaching what ever you want is fine by PADI. That is as long as:

(a) you don't evaluate the student base on that material for pass or fail

(b) if you want to take on the personal liability, which few people with any brains are willing to do.

There is a difference between quality training and unnecessary training.

I understand King. Again, I'm not active with PADI, so their standards do not concern me.
Thanks for your input.

 

[Kingpatzer]

If someone wanted to start a business, then it would be worth their time and investment to be trained properly. I agree however, if they only want it quick and cheap, they get what they pay for, but it's enough if you're in the roles you have described.

If someone wanted to get into the scuba business, they are going to either be a CD or will be hiring one (or they won't be in business long.) What they will need if they are a CD is not more training in scuba but a solid business background and training in managing a small business. If they aren't a CD, they'll need plenty of training -- more than you could provide in a reasonable amount of time -- so they'd need to hire that position.

There are plenty of highly trained, competent CD's out there. And to presume they are all not trained properly more or less suggest why your endeavor would not be successful. You clearly don't understand the recreational scuba market.

My IDC is taking me the better part of a year. I am doing 2 full days of classes each month, combined with spending between 2 and 4 days each month in pool and open water sessions with experienced instructors. Yet my training is costing me far less than I would pay at a vacation training center.

Of course, in your eyes I'll still suck being PADI trained and teaching to PADI standards and lacking your super-secret training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Teaching what ever you want is fine by PADI. That is as long as:

(a) you don't evaluate the student base on that material for pass or fail

(b) if you want to take on the personal liability, which few people with any brains are willing to do.

There is a difference between quality training and unnecessary training.

Many of us don't let PADI define what we believe to be either "quality" or "unnecessary" ... and we have valid reasons for doing so.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

I understand King. Again, I'm not active with PADI, so their standards do not concern me.
Thanks for your input.

Then what agency would you be teaching for?

And if you're not teaching for an agency, why would an instructor or instructor candidate care to take your course when they could spend that time training within a program that would further their business and career interests?

To put it in analogously:

Which is more valuable for a career: a degree from a state college or seminar at Harvard?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Of course, in your eyes I'll still suck being PADI trained and teaching to PADI standards and lacking your super-secret training.

Why do you feel the need to get defensive? It's not an "either/or" situation.

Then what agency would you be teaching for?

... you ARE aware that there are other agencies besides PADI in the scuba instruction business ???

Here's a partial list ...

AAUS: American Academy of Underwater Sciences
ACUC: Association of Canadian Underwater Councils
ANDI: American Nitrox Divers International
BSAC: The British Sub-Aqua Club
CDG: Commercial Diving Group
CEDIP: Comite Europeen des Instructeurs de Plongée
CMAS: Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques
DIWA: Diving Instructors World Association
DRI: Dive Rescue International
GUE: Global Underwater Explorers
HSA: Handicapped Scuba Association International
IAHD: International Association for Handicapped Divers
IDD: Instructor Dive Development
IDEA: International Diving Educators Association
LACUIA: Los Angeles County Underwater Instructors Association
NACD: National Association for Cave Diving
NAPSD: National Association of Public Safety Divers
NASDS: National Association of Scuba Diving Schools (now SSI)
NAUI: National Association of Scuba Instructors
NSS-CDS: National Speleological Society - Cave Diving Section
SDI: Scuba Diving International
SSA: Sub-Aqua Association
SSAC: Scottish Sub-Aqua Club
SSI: Scuba Schools International
UTD: Unified Team Diving

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

Many of us don't let PADI define what we believe to be either "quality" or "unnecessary" ... and we have valid reasons for doing so.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I don't doubt you do. If you're with some other agency, or teaching without agency backing, then bully for you. If you are teaching within PADI and are using that additional training to evaluate students then you are violating PADI standards (at least as I've been taught them). And you are taking on additional personal liability. So even where you are not violating agency standards you are putting your business at risk. When talking about trying to run a successful small business that is a business decision that is hard to justify on business grounds.

That means very, very few people who are putting their entire financial future on the line (which most small business owners are doing) are going to make that choice.

That doesn't mean they are not providing a quality training experience.