Is the PADI SMB specialty a waste of money?

[Diver0001]

I'd like everyone to close their eyes. Imagine an instructor in a warm water location alone with 8 students. Now imagine all of those students deploying DSMBs. If the DSMB is not small and cannot be pulled back down, the DSMB's are going to be at the surface. Picture the entanglements that result from students too close together.

It's all in the logistics. The mechanics of it can be demonstrated and practiced in confined. If an instructor had 8 students and 4 dives to do this skill in, then he/she could do 2 per dive (or 3 if someone needed to repeat the skill). In the summer I usually do OW with 3 or 4 students and I have no trouble with them doing that. I send 2 a few meters away with the DM and I keep the other 2 with me.

That said, the sanity of trying to give lessons to 8 novice divers in OW could be questioned. This skill would be easy enough to get done but with such a large group it would be very hard to deliver much in the way of quality. When we have groups over 4 we always split them for quality reasons.

R..

 

[scubadada]

Craig, the way it works is as follows:

According to the standards, it must be taught at the open water level. The standard requires that the student performs the deployment either under water or on the surface. Assuming a diver has done it underwater during OW then the skill is no longer "new" or needing "introduction". Therefore it can be added as an element to any dive at any level after that at the instructor's discretion. No revision of the curriculum is necessary.

R..

Hi @Diver0001

So, what is taught at the OW level, surface SMB or dSMB? I'm pretty sure that for most classes, it is the former. After OW, I assume there is no requirement for teaching dSMB. A single Adventure Dive or, maybe, a specialty course, might be a perfectly fine way to make up for this deficiency. How often do you think an instructor adds dSMB to another course?

Good diving, Craig

 

[Diver0001]

They may use an AP dSMB to meet the requirements if they own one.

This would be like learning how to drive in an autonomous car.

R..

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It's all in the logistics. The mechanics of it can be demonstrated and practiced in confined. If an instructor had 8 students and 4 dives to do this skill in, then he/she could do 2 per dive (or 3 if someone needed to repeat the skill). In the summer I usually do OW with 3 or 4 students and I have no trouble with them doing that. I send 2 a few meters away with the DM and I keep the other 2 with me.

That said, the sanity of trying to give lessons to 8 novice divers in OW could be questioned. This skill would be easy enough to get done but with such a large group it would be very hard to deliver much in the way of quality. When we have groups over 4 we always split them for quality reasons.

R..

You missed my quote later about how open water is frequently taught. I'd be surprised if anyone here teaches this way.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi @Diver0001

So, what is taught at the OW level, surface SMB or dSMB? I'm pretty sure that for most classes, it is the former. After OW, I assume there is no requirement for teaching dSMB. A single Adventure Dive or, maybe, a specialty course, might be a perfectly fine way to make up for this deficiency. How often do you think an instructor adds dSMB to another course?

Good diving, Craig

My reading of the standards is that if you do it at the surface it should be an SMB and if you do it under water it should be a DSMB.

Obviously performing this skill on the surface is like drinking water and pretending that it is beer, so nobody I know personally wastes their time or their student's time doing that. We all do it underwater using a DSMB.

R..

 

[scubadada]

My reading of the standards is that if you do it at the surface it should be an SMB and if you do it under water it should be a DSMB.

Obviously performing this skill on the surface is like drinking water and pretending that it is beer, so nobody I know personally wastes their time or their student's time doing that. We all do it underwater using a DSMB.

R..

You have good classes!

 

[Wookie]

This would be like learning how to drive in an autonomous car.

R..

Sure, but what is the object? If they have an autonomous car, they can ride in it. Maybe they have a ridiculous Mares Hub BCD system or a Aqualung whatever their ridiculous BCD system is too. The thing achieves neutral buoyancy and compensates for changing buoyancy during dives. Would you penalize them for diving with their gear? The object of a dSMB is to signal the surface.

 

[Diver0001]

You missed my quote later about how open water is frequently taught. I'd be surprised if anyone here teaches this way.

Sadly, I agree that many instructors get large ratios thrust upon them and are either not in a position or not assertive enough to say no. I would also agree as a general rule that quality suffers dramatically when this happens.

That said, I work closely with an Egyptian instructor who now lives in Holland. He has done well over 10,000 dives and nearly as many certifications over the years and his technique is SO incredibly efficient that the difference between how refined he is as an instructor and how good a lot of the local "well meaning amateurs" are is like the difference between sand and glass. There is a LOT that most instructors can win in efficiency.

My impression, and I learned this the hard way myself, is that a fair number of amateur and/or volunteer instructors working in places like you and I work spend WAY too much time fixing their own mistakes. When you see how they they ACTUALLY work It's not surprising that some of these guys are saying that they need 15 or 20 hours (or more) in a pool with a student. I once witnessed a local instructor her take 20 minutes to do a buddy check, just to give one example.

I do agree with your assessment, however, that the instructors who could benefit most from reading Scubaboard probably do not follow Scubaboard.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

Sure, but what is the object? If they have an autonomous car, they can ride in it. Maybe they have a ridiculous Mares Hub BCD system or a Aqualung whatever their ridiculous BCD system is too. The thing achieves neutral buoyancy and compensates for changing buoyancy during dives. Would you penalize them for diving with their gear? The object of a dSMB is to signal the surface.

Fair point.

R..

 

[Rred]

Well, you've got red sausages, yellow sausages, orange, lime green, hot pink...four or six foot long...open at the bottom or using a closed air valve often with no overpressure relief...so many complications. I can't see how PADI could possibly cover them all in one course!