Is Deep Air / Light Deco (bounce?) Discussible on ScubaBoard?

[DiveNav]

.....I am still waiting for the bounce dive advocates to define their terms--perhaps this is a start.

While I am NOT an advocate of deco bounce dives (but I advocate the need to discuss them ... because they happen) I would like to offer my definition:

"a dive during which a deco situation happens (as in the dive computer indicating the need for a deco stop) but it get cleared before the diver reaches the safety stop level while leisurely ascending"
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[LiteHedded]

after 30 pages I have come to the conclusion that it is discussible

 

[Thalassamania]

While I am NOT an advocate of deco bounce dives (but I advocate the need to discuss them ... because they happen) I would like to offer my definition:

"a dive during which a deco situation happens (as in the dive computer indicating the need for a deco stop) but it get cleared before the diver reaches the safety stop level while leisurely ascending"
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That might work for, "deco light," but surely not, "bounce dive."

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

after 30 pages I have come to the conclusion that it is discussible

I'm only on page 10 ... wonder where the other 20 pages went ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

If you had read them, Catherine would have to kill you, I'm on page 30, post 295.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

While I am NOT an advocate of deco bounce dives (but I advocate the need to discuss them ... because they happen) I would like to offer my definition:

"a dive during which a deco situation happens (as in the dive computer indicating the need for a deco stop) but it get cleared before the diver reaches the safety stop level while leisurely ascending"
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Light deco is whatever somebody wants to call it. But that is definitely NOT the meaning of a bounce dive.

I guess MY idea of light deco is, a mandatory deco that you can "probably" blow off and not get hurt too bad...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you had read them, Catherine would have to kill you, I'm on page 30, post 295.

Depending on how she went about it, I could think of less pleasant ways to go ...

I get 30 responses to a page ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Light deco is whatever somebody wants to call it. But that is definitely NOT the meaning of a bounce dive.

I guess MY idea of light deco is, a mandatory deco that you can "probably" blow off and not get hurt too bad...

Bounce diving I don't do ... playing Russian roulette with an AGE or Type II hit just isn't my idea of a good time. Light deco I do quite often ... if you want to define deco as exceeding the NDL numbers on your dive computer. I'll often run mine 10-12 minutes into the "mandatory" column. But I'm doing dives from shore ... coming up a slope where I will be spending half or more of my dive at intermediate depths. Typically any accrued deco obligation has been cleared (according to the computer) by the time I reach 40 fsw ... and I'll take at few minutes to get from 40 to 20, and another few minutes to get from 20 to 10.

I think a lot of how you look at terms like "light deco" really depend on where and how you dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DevonDiver]

Ahhh; you evidently feel that by not talking about deco in "recreational forums", other than to "just say no", then recreational divers will self regulate and always never go into deco.

The vast majority will. The vast majority do. I don't want irresponsible posts here on Scubaboard changing that.

...and if they are really interested in a hypothetical understanding of the subject, then they know to come to the technical forum to read threads and ask questions. That's why we don't restrict membership/posting privileges to this forum. But by coming here, they are clearly aware that the debate can, or will, exceed the limits of technical training, that such activities demand further training and experience... and there are additional dangers involved with such an activity. Fair?

But then two recreational divers with different computers notice what Bob described, and while talking on the boat someone with another, more aggressive computer sees that they did not get bent ...

Then they have the option of changing computers. It's no different to arguing between using tables or computers. Why does a computer allow me X time, but the table allows me only Y time? Same dive, different profile, different NDL. People are intelligent enough to understand that different computers (or tables) will bring you up at different times. They also understand the implications of diving aggressively and the benefits of diving conservatively.

Going back to Bob's post on the differences between Vytec and Versa; does one have to show a tech cert to buy a Vytec or Versa?

Dive computers provide information on 'emergency deco', to get divers out of trouble should they accidentally exceed their NDL.

Dive computers do not provide 'fly-by-wire' deco directions, to allow (otherwise untrained) divers to exceed the limits of their training and experience.

Using the same logic, you could say that PADI tables allowed deco... because they have instructions for completing emergency deco.

I guess MY idea of light deco is, a mandatory deco that you can "probably" blow off and not get hurt too bad...

I get what you're saying here....but... using the words "probably" and "too bad"... still clearly indicate that you feel there are significant risks.

Now...if you (or anyone) could state that light deco was something you could "definitely" blow off and "definitely" not get hurt at all... then it'd be reasonable to open such an activity to recreational divers without specific deco training.

However, you can't state that. There are significant risks.

Recreational diving is very 'risk averse'. It needs to be. It is cheap and cheerful training. It demands little or nothing from the students/divers in respect of core diving skills or competency. Training standards are low. Courses are minimal content, minimal practice, minimal time. The definitions of 'skill mastery' are a joke.

That's why so many good recreational divers have a big shock when they enter technical training. It's easy to be a 'big fish' in the 'small pond' on recreational diving. The jump to technical/cave diving is very much a 'big pool'... and the confident recreational divers suddenly realises what a 'small fish' they actually are.

Whilst some recreational divers are well-skilled and competent, the greater majority are not. Quite a high percentage are outright incompetent and a danger to themselves and others. Consequently, we place a strict definition on recreational diving, along with clear recommended limits, so that the idiots can't hurt themselves when, inevitably, they screw up.

Where a recreational diver feels they are too highly skilled, or too knowledgeable, to be restricted by the limits placed on 'recreational' divers - there is a very obvious route for them to take.... tech. A little training and all those 'limits' fall away. Freedom!

Of course, there is some resistance to being 'forced' to do technical training, in order to have that freedom. But when did the need for progressive training stop? At what point did those divers decide that they 'knew enough'? When did they decide they were 'good enough' to not need the input and feedback from their peers?

It sounds like an 'ego issue' to me. Some people prefer to be a 'big fish' in a 'small pond'.

Wanting to discuss inappropriate technical topics, in a recreational diving arena is, IMHO, an example of that.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Dive computers do not provide 'fly-by-wire' deco directions, to allow (otherwise untrained) divers to exceed the limits of their training and experience.

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Actually they DO.... provide fly by wire or whatever the hell that means. That is one of the dangers of this type of diving. It is very simple.. follow the computer, exactly like you do when doing a recreational no-deco dive..It is misleading to say that modern dive computers can not be used to execute deco dives (especially short ones at moderate depths). If that were not so, I most certainly would be dead.

Untrained, relatively ignorant divers can simply follow their computers. I had an uncertified buddy who taught himself to snorkel and then to scuba and then to dive short deco to 165 ft all without much more than being somewhat of an athlete and also reading the computer manual. I did deco dives with him on his boat and never knew he had no training (nor even a competent mentor) for like a year before I found out. He was not much of a reader and i don't know if he even read diving books.

However, we also have to recognize that if you have problems, run low on air, can't control bouyancy etc. the little computer isn't going to do much for you.