Is a Padi OW cert a dive licence or a licence to learn?

[Frosty]

I've been having the discussion regarding driver licencing here in NZ.
Over here we have a 3 stage graduated licence system where your learners permit is actually called a learner licence.
It got me to thinking.
Should a Padi OW certificate be concidered a licence to dive or a licence to learn ?
Maybee a rephrase might be a licence to go out and practice the skills your instructor taught you.

 

[EevelMonkee]

Should a Padi OW certificate be concidered a licence to dive or a licence to learn ?
Maybee a rephrase might be a licence to go out and practice the skills your instructor taught you.

The PADI Open Water Certification is a qualification to plan and conduct dives (with at least one other certified diver) without the requirement to be accompanied by a professional diver. It also allows the certification holder to rent tanks or receive air fills.
It has been and will continue to be debated whether or not the training given in the Open Water Course is sufficient to grant these privileges. If the instructor trains to standard and the newly certified diver uses sound judgement and dives within the limits of their training and ability, the certification is sufficient. The newly certified diver signs a statement stating that they will do the aforementioned upon certification. The obvious argument is that the new diver may not know enough to have any type of judgement. The same could be said about a newly licensed driver.
Regarding the "license to learn"...I venture to say that anyone who takes their endeavors seriously and has passion will actively seek out further knowledge and training in that area. That can apply to a new college grad, someone who has taken up a new hobby, someone working in a technical field, any professional that wants to stay in the game, etc. Its obvious to a dive professional when we're working with a certified diver who hasn't done any, or very limited, diving since their certification and didn't bother brushing up on their dive knowledge prior to their trip. These kind of people are making themselves a burden and a hazard to those diving with them. On the other hand, limited experience divers who look over their books, ask for a scuba review, or at least ask their guide some questions prior to the dive are showing a little more maturity and concern for the potential seriousness of the sport.

 

[macado]

In theory, PADI Open Water (or any open water certification for that matter) should allow you to plan and dive (with a buddy) independently of an instructor within your limits. Like you said, it's essentially a license to dive, albeit a very basic one

Using the car analogy, a basic Open Water certification is not going to allow you to dive caves or penetrate wrecks, just as a basic drivers' license is not going to allow you to drive a motorcycle or tractor trailer as you need a different license for that though in reality nothing is really stopping you from doing so, it would just be incredibly foolish without any training.

I think a lot of people feel that most divers coming out of Open Water aren't prepared to plan and do dives independently. As a result they go take "Advanced Open Water" which may give some a false sense of security. After a good Advanced Open Water class, many divers are more confident in their abilities and may be more comfortable diving without an instructor.

In the United States it is not really a license as you technically don't have to "certified to dive" as the United States doesn't regulate it. Scuba is mostly a self-regulating sport but good luck getting air fills or doing charters without a certification card just as you cant really register/drive a car without a license. However, in theory nothing is stopping me from buying my gear online, buying an air compressor, strapping on a tank and jumping in the water as foolish is that may be.

I guess in a sense, diving certifications are almost like licenses. A lot of dive ops aren't obviously going to let you do more advanced dives without proper certifications or experience. In the same sense that you shouldn't drive a motorcycle without a motorcycle license.

An Open Water certification is only the first step into more advanced diving (or should I say different types of diving?) but still there are some that never advance beyond that point and are extremely capable divers. In fact, the only reason a lot of old school divers got certified was so they could get tanks filled. If you read on this board, many started diving before there were any formal certifications at all.

 

[TSandM]

Well, there is often controversy about whether scuba should be termed a "sport" . . . but I believe it has quite a bit in common with other sports, in that proficient technique makes it more fun, and proficiency is only obtained with practice. Anybody can learn the rules of tennis, and pick up a racquet, but beginners spend quite a lot of time chasing missed balls

Perfect control in the water, and sharp situational awareness, are things that come with time and being able to relegate the basic functions of diving to the subconscious level. Just as when we learn to drive, in the beginning, the new diver is managing far too many things at a conscious level, and we all only have so much bandwidth. As the gear becomes familiar, breathing settles down, and kicking technique improves, there is far more brainpower available to be a more attentive buddy, and to refine technique. In this sense, the OW certification is definitely a "license to learn".

Where things get much more interesting is when you try to define the level of proficiency that someone with a "license to learn" ought to have. I know that I have a vision of what I want our students to be able to do, and to look like, when they finish their class. Some can reach that, and some cannot do it in the time available. (And becoming proficient in 45 degree water and ten feet of viz is much harder for people, I think!) And then one has to ask whether to accept a lower proficiency from students for a "pass", or to extend classes beyond what most people are willing to do, in order to bring everyone up to the vision. NW Grateful Diver just put a post on another thread on this topic, observing that, when he worked for a shop that did that, they taught very few students. If you tell people up front, "This class will be longer and more expensive," they go elsewhere -- I know I would have, as an OW student. If you tell them at the end of their 4th OW dive, "You need more work," they just get mad -- especially because, if the extra time is not built into the original class, they will end up paying more than they expected.

Overall, scuba is almost amazingly safe, given that you are spending time underwater. So most of our "licensees" aren't killing themselves, even if they may be driving 45 mph in the fast lane with their right turn signal on . . .

 

[fjpatrum]

Without reading any of the other comments I'd say both. I took my cert and immediately went to schedule some dives. My second post-OW dive was to ~75 feet and my third was a night dive (though a very tame "sit here and watch" type of night dive). At the same time I bought my own gear prior to doing my OW dives because I knew I'd love this sport for a long time. I have since made some minor changes to what I'm interested in diving (or rather expanded my interests) and as such I'm trying to learn a lot, from Scubaboard and other sources.

I've never taken any "certification" as a final say in "authority" though, so I see an OW cert the same way. Yes, I can do most any dive I want to right now but that doesn't mean I should stop learning.

 

[windapp]

In my opinion, the certification part shows that you have been adequately trained to know the dangers of what you are doing, and to know whether or not you are diving within your own personal limits. This removes the liability from dive ops if you do something stupid and kill yourself.

 

[EastTNDiver]

If you think about it, all certifications are licenses to learn. I don't know of anyone that has taken any given dive class, and come out an expert based solely on that class. Certifications are just starting points.

 

[LivBlue]

Well the other day I responded to a frustrated person who'd just got his cert. I also just got mine this weekend. My response was that OW gave us the skills to survive, now we need to practice. This is another member jumped on me and said that opinion was too relaxed and that I should go back and demand additional training. However to me surviving is the first step and really all that OW promised when looking at the documentation. It says basic skills. I know how to plan so I don't stay down too long, how the equipment works, to stay with buddy, how to share air, clear mask, ect. The basic set of do this and you should be able to safely make it to the surface. I don't know how to maintain great buoyancy, I don't know how it feels to get caught on something, I've not had a buddy run off on me, ect.

I certainly wish that in OW classes that there was one extra day of now we're going to just dive. Just spend one day with the instructor where the class makes the plan. We dive the plan, and the instructor is there to make sure we did it correctly. Maybe he would ask randomly for a mask clear from a student who that bothered once before, or ask another for a controlled assent, maybe just a couple real life things could happen and let the student's training kick in. Sure we can book that with the instructor independently but I think it'd be a nice addition to at least be offered up front. Like the LDS could say OW class for $299 or for $349 one more practice dive day with instructor. I'd have taken them up on that and been better for it.

 

[fdog]

Hmm...from a literal point of view, it's not a license for anything. It's a certificate attesting to your successful completion of the course listed on the card.

It's up to the person requesting yout cert card to evaluate that training level and whether they will allow you to dive off their boat or fill you tanks with trimix or whatnot.

....I don't think we want the government involved with licensing diving...



All the best, James

 

[Thalassamania]

James has it right. Certification is nothing more than a document, provided by the signatory, that attests to the holders completion of a written set of learning objectives. The real question is, are the learning objectives really met and, if so, are they adequate?