Instructor diver mysterious death

[Jim Lapenta]

I understand that as do you. But will the family? Currently there is a case of a missing person, I will not say missing diver because some of the best people in the world say he's not in the cave, that the family refuses to believe is not alive and is in a cave. They are offering a reward to someone that can go in and find what is not there. People grieve. And in their grief make decisions and offer up explanations and reasons for the deceased dying that at best are erroneous and at worst downright crazy. They want to accuse people who had no hand in the death of the person. Whether its out of some need to feel vindicated or to protect some memory of the victim. They refuse to accept that their loved one messed up. Or that it was their time. And in the process of doing this they cause unnecessary suffering to the living. Those divers have to live with the fact that they were unable to retrieve a fellow diver. One they had hired to guide them. Unless they are unfeeling bastards that has to have affected them. So now on top of that they get accused of killing the man. The deceased knew the risks of what he was doing. Something went wrong and he died. Maybe through his own actions or inaction. Time to let him rest in peace. This is why waivers are useless. Families don't sign them. And families need to have something or someone to take their anger out on. And maybe cash in on.

Then you have lawyers who count on that. And like vultures theu circle until there is some sign that the family wants blood in the form of money. At that point they swoop in and desecrate the memory of the deceased by prolonging the grief process with legal proceedings that rehash the event and the loss. All in the name of "justice for the victim" and "the family". When really its about a payday. Otherwise they would not need to take 30-40%. And the system is set up to perpetuate the travesty since the judges that decide the cases and lawmakers that write the statutes are lawyers themselves. They feed their own.

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[DandyDon]

Jim, I've just been following this quietly, but I am confused about this...?

I will not say missing diver because some of the best people in the world say he's not in the cave, that the family refuses to believe is not alive and is in a cave.

Cave? What cave? Up to now, I had understood that he was an accomplished diver, and whatever happened - clearly dead.

 

[ScubaSteve]

He's talking about Ben McDaniel Don.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Steve is correct. I was drawing a parallel.

 

[Jax]

"The family of our Ismail Marzouk went yesterday to the Public Prosecutor’s office, filing a report against the British company, Blue O Two, accusing the latter of negligence and absence of industrial safety standards that led to their son’s death." August 26th, 2011 , according to:
Ismail Marzouk’s family call for investigation into their son’s death « 3arabawy

Jim, the depth level at this site can reach 800 m, there are strong currents and a lot of sharks, only submarine like the dutch C-Explorer 1, 2 or 3 (U-Boat Worx mini submarines - U-Boat Worx) can reach this depth but I'm not sure if there are such submarines operating in the Red Sea.

giozon, are you a member of the family? Or very close to the victim?

If so, we are all very sorry for your loss.

 

[Jax]

giozon,

Given what little facts we have, your Ismail (per the wart) was an accomplished diver following the tenets of a very structured and safety-conscious segment of the diving world. As such, he was fully cognizant of the risk incurred guiding these deep dives.

We recently lost another diver who was equally as accomplished. The medical report stated he had a sudden coronary attack at depth. This is how we lose our accomplished divers, more often than not. The fact Ismail's body was not recovered does not help in this case.

I believe that the UK divers did everything they possibly could, because that is what most divers will do. However, in no case should a diver ever make a second victim of herself or himself trying to rescue another. At those depths, when something goes terribly wrong, sometimes lives are lost. Just as extreme mountain climbers accept the additional perils of their sport, so do technical divers accept the risks in diving. I hope you can understand that.

 

[Ste Wart]

I would hazard a guess and say that the family is looking for some compensation as Ismail left behind an infant, and he was the main source of income.

I cannot confirm this. I'm in the UK, this is all going on in Egypt and there's only so much info you can get through Facebook.

 

[Crush]

I would hazard a guess and say that the family is looking for some compensation as Ismail left behind an infant, and he was the main source of income.

I cannot confirm this. I'm in the UK, this is all going on in Egypt and there's only so much info you can get through Facebook.

The link provided by the OP: Swallowed by the Red Sea: the mysterious drowning of Ismail Marzouk - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online has a section in it dedicated to compensation:

Compensation

But what would be an adequate compensation for Marzouk’s friends and family
“My son died. Nothing could compensate me, and we don’t even have his body to burry. The authorities need to know that Egyptian lives are not cheap. The best of our children, as young as 30-years-old, dies and disappears into the sea without anyone noticing. It is not fair,” said Hamdy.

His brother Islam also says: “These accidents occur a lot; we just don’t want this to happen again. We want company owners and authorities to hold to their responsibilities in both safety procedures and compensation. I am sure the owner of the company is only worried about the tanks he lost, not my brother,” added Islam.

As for his best friend, Youssef, he believes the company has to offer both moral and material adequate compensation. “They need to issue a statement declaring their responsibility in not taking the necessary steps (in accordance with regulations) to ensure his safety so that when his daughter grows up she is not told her father was a fool and killed himself under water because he was a great diver. Also required is adequate compensation for his young daughter’s education,” added Youssef.​

 

[tridacna]

I understand that as do you. But will the family? Currently there is a case of a missing person, I will not say missing diver because some of the best people in the world say he's not in the cave, that the family refuses to believe is not alive and is in a cave. They are offering a reward to someone that can go in and find what is not there. People grieve. And in their grief make decisions and offer up explanations and reasons for the deceased dying that at best are erroneous and at worst downright crazy. They want to accuse people who had no hand in the death of the person. Whether its out of some need to feel vindicated or to protect some memory of the victim. They refuse to accept that their loved one messed up. Or that it was their time. And in the process of doing this they cause unnecessary suffering to the living. Those divers have to live with the fact that they were unable to retrieve a fellow diver. One they had hired to guide them. Unless they are unfeeling bastards that has to have affected them. So now on top of that they get accused of killing the man. The deceased knew the risks of what he was doing. Something went wrong and he died. Maybe through his own actions or inaction. Time to let him rest in peace. This is why waivers are useless. Families don't sign them. And families need to have something or someone to take their anger out on. And maybe cash in on.

Then you have lawyers who count on that. And like vultures theu circle until there is some sign that the family wants blood in the form of money. At that point they swoop in and desecrate the memory of the deceased by prolonging the grief process with legal proceedings that rehash the event and the loss. All in the name of "justice for the victim" and "the family". When really its about a payday. Otherwise they would not need to take 30-40%. And the system is set up to perpetuate the travesty since the judges that decide the cases and lawmakers that write the statutes are lawyers themselves. They feed their own.

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Jim, with due respect, you are making a huge leap from the family wanting to find the body to "vulture lawyers". Has there already been discussion of a lawsuit? I've been following Ben McDaniel's story and I had not seen that yet.

 

[Tigerman]

Jesus. They are getting as bad as the US. Wonder how many ambulance chasers they have. Next they'll be offering a reward to some idiot to try and retrieve the body and be responsible for someone else's death. Unless the 'breather divers held a gun to the missing divers head they were not at fault.

Stuff happens and there are times when nothing can be done about it.

OR they have a valid point as there IS a fair few rather unserious dive ops around the red sea. I do not know anything about Blue O Two so I dont know how their practice is, but the family of the deceased diver might not know either.

One of the problems with many of the red sea sites is that they are pretty much the reef plate, a slope and then a drop to several hundred meters so actually going down there after a body is not possible, so if your body is lost in the first place, the best you can hope for is to get a plaque at the dropoff..