Inflator/octo combo + long-hose primary?

[savechief]

Lots of threads about the inflator/octo combos, but I think that I have a slightly different question that I haven't run across before. Many people say that one of the biggest downsides of the inflator/octo combo is how difficult it is to share air during an OOA situation.

The DIR guys have long hose primaries and necklaced backup second stages. In an OOA situation, they use the necklaced 2nd and donate the primary. Couldn't you apply the same logic using an octo/inflator? Use that one in an OOA situation and then donate the long-hose primary.

One of the drawbacks is that you still have to control ascent off the reg that you're breathing from, but this does seem to get rid of one of the major drawbacks that I've read about.

John

 

[ZenDiver]

If it works for you, go for it.

Love to hear what the DIR folks are gonna say about this one...=)

Biggest problem I have with integrated Octos is that they are all junk. They constantly come out of adjustment and seem to always be leaking a bit. I was constantly tweaking them for customers. An annoyance and sometimes a dive buster. I just call like I see it.

 

[ZenDiver]

Besides...the long hose is for overhead...unless you are diving in caves or wrecks do yourself a favor and stick to standard length hoses.

 

[scubamickey]

The best way to get rid of the "downsides" of an Air2 type setup is to get rid of the Air2. If it's a problem then stick with the standard reg and octo setup, or go to a long hose with bungeed back up (this is what I do). Why try to solve a problem when you can avoid it altogether?

Do one or the other but don't mix and match.

 

[Grey_Wulff]

The DIR guys have long hose primaries and necklaced backup second stages. In an OOA situation, they use the necklaced 2nd and donate the primary. Couldn't you apply the same logic using an octo/inflator? Use that one in an OOA situation and then donate the long-hose primary.

In an AOO situation you should definately give your primary to your buddy while you breath off of the octo/inflator. Your buddy is not going to be able to successfully breath off your octo/inflator while you're both making an ascent.

As you rightly pointed out, even if you're breathing off your octo/inflator while sharing air and attempting to ascend, bouyancy control is a challenge. Hence, IMHO it's worth keeping a primary and standard octo configuration. Forget the octo/inflator.

Grey_Wulff

 

[Vayu]

A benefit of the necklace regulator is that a diver can reach the regulator without use of their hands. On an AIR2 this would not be possible.

Also, how many people do you know that have ever had a problem with a power inflator or a corrugated hose? If I had a problem with my inflator I could simply disconnect the low pressure hose and continue the dive. However, if an AIR2 was part of the setup I would have to call the dive because now there is no backup regulator for me.

What else? Lets see... They complicate buoyancy control and air sharing. Buddy breathing on a short hosed regulator will still be easier than with an AIR2 if your primary regulator failed.

If you have a standardized team the team will no longer be standardized.

Good enough reason not to change the excellent idea of placing a regulator on a necklace using bungee or surgical tubing.

Biggest problem I have with integrated Octos is that they are all junk. They constantly come out of adjustment and seem to always be leaking a bit. I was constantly tweaking them for customers. An annoyance and sometimes a dive buster. I just call like I see it.

Good reasons. The longhose is not just for overhead though. It is useful for sharing air comfortably even in openwater diving. The longhose is great especially in a current or when a team has to travel underwater to an upline or to the shore. The longhose is not necessary for openwater diving but it is advantageous and generally even more streamlined than the short hoses.

 

[Quarrior]

All have made good points about using the long hose and have made good points about not using the OCTO+inlfaltor setup.

Here's one that was missed. You can't turn your head while using the OCTO+inflator setup. With the bungied OCTO you can swim like normal. You also won't have your hand constantly in your face dumping air as you ascend. In other words, just way to much task loading for my interests.

 

[ZenDiver]

The longhose is not just for overhead though. It is useful for sharing air comfortably even in openwater diving. The longhose is great especially in a current or when a team has to travel underwater to an upline or to the shore. The longhose is not necessary for openwater diving but it is advantageous and generally even more streamlined than the short hoses.

It takes a trained diver that knows the routine to apply this particular practice in the field...ie...real situation. Most divers do not know the drill of using a long hose or how to use it in an emergency. I count less than 5 percent of divers use it in open water and that is generous. That means approximately 5 percent of divers are trained on a long hose. So how do you plan on communicating to a posibly panicked diver to swim in front of you in a current to the upline while two people are sharing one tank, breathing hard, tasking the 1st stage and hoping they make it to their "goal" before their air supply runs out. I personally will start the ascent immediately long hose or not. I think the openwater OOA diver would appreciate that as well. It is much better to make a surface swim with unlimited air then to make a calcualted or uncalculated long swim while sharing air in my opinion.

 

[PerroneFord]

Hmmm,

1. OOA diver comes to get your reg. Not going to matter if it's a 2ft hose or a 7ft hose. No "training" required there!

2. Once the OOA diver is breathing comfortably, you can either ascend 9f he's panicing, or swim to the line if he's calm.

3. If you are worried about running out of gas because you have to do an OOA, then you didn't plan your gas well. Not the OOA diver's fault.

4. I agree generally with your idea of an immediate ascent under most circumstances.

It takes a trained diver that knows the routine to apply this particular practice in the field...ie...real situation. Most divers do not know the drill of using a long hose or how to use it in an emergency. I count less than 5 percent of divers use it in open water and that is generous. That means approximately 5 percent of divers are trained on a long hose. So how do you plan on communicating to a posibly panicked diver to swim in front of you in a current to the upline while two people are sharing one tank, breathing hard, tasking the 1st stage and hoping they make it to their "goal" before their air supply runs out. I personally will start the ascent immediately long hose or not. I think the openwater OOA diver would appreciate that as well. It is much better to make a surface swim with unlimited air then to make a calcualted or uncalculated long swim while sharing air in my opinion.

 

[ZenDiver]

Hmmm,

1. OOA diver comes to get your reg. Not going to matter if it's a 2ft hose or a 7ft hose. No "training" required there!

Wasnt referring to the deployment....was referring to post procedure. Not a smart idea to put a diver in front of you unless you have to...like in overhead which you had better be trained and experienced to begin with.

2. Once the OOA diver is breathing comfortably, you can either ascend 9f he's panicing, or swim to the line if he's calm.

Have you ever used a 7 ft hose on an ascent then messed around with it in pitching seas and got it tangled up in a ladder when trying to board the boat while trying to keep your buddy calm at the same time? Seems like alot of task loading for the average diver who has never been trained on its deployment or stowage during certain situations, especially emergencies. Why deal with it if you dont have to in open water?

3. If you are worried about running out of gas because you have to do an OOA, then you didn't plan your gas well. Not the OOA diver's fault..

Re-read my post...I basically said why deal with calculating SAC rates ....just make the ascent..Statistically when a diver runs low on air, the other diver is low too. Makes sense right? Then why would you swim anywhere horizontally unless you had to?

4. I agree generally with your idea of an immediate ascent under most circumstances.

Other than overhead...tell me when you think it would be prudent to stay down any longer than you had to with an OOA diver? How many emergencies have you experienced where the victim was calm and collected? The answer is rarely.