Incident Today at Gilboa

[diverbrian]

Bladephotographer,

Sorry about the hit. I hope that it works out for you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

There is a little bit of truth in what you say and a lot of BS. For starters I spent 7 1/2 hours in a chamber at Detroit Receiving Hospital after getting bent from completing a perfectly planned and executed dive in Lake Huron Saturday.

I guess we could all do without that kind of "perfect", huh?

And I get to do another 5 hour ride today. I got bent. I shouldn't have but It just happened. The people on the boat with me and the hyperbaric doc all said it shouldn't have happened.

It shouldn't be too hard to see the illogic here. Since you DID get bent and the people on the boat and at the chamber said that you "shouldn't have"...those people are demonstrably WRONG...because you DID get bent.

We do not understand all the relevant physiological factors and can't predict the outcome perfectly but it's just physiology and physics. It didn't just happen. If you got bent, you did something wrong. Not knowing what you did wrong doesn't mean that it was right. It just means that you don't know.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You come off as a person with an axe to grind with the dive industry. As a journalist, the fact that you even offer a rope to hang someone is a red flag that you're not going to be any better of a source than the person trying to sell dive gear.

I'm not offering myself as a source. Why doesn't some sharp reporter do a little research on training standards? They might learn some interesting things. Why don't they watch some OW students bouncing and crawling around the bottom...and then doing their AOW "deep dive" the next weekend? Some sharp reporter could have a good read of the OW, AOW and "deep diver" standards and look at how divers really get hurt. There's plenty to write about. However, you won't see it written or talked about by those who have a financial interest in defending those programs.

To say that I have an aexe to grind is an understatement.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, Is there a training agency who you don't bash? I am sure there are shortcomings in every agency but who would you call the best overall?

Since I go to such great lenghts to tie any criticism of an agency directly to trainaing standards, I don't think it qualifies as bashing.

Since I go to such great lengths to tie any criticism of an agency directly to training standards, I don't think it qualifies as bashing.

I don't know which agency I would consider the "best". There are some agencies who’s quality of standards and the application of those standards is consistently evident in the skill level of the divers they train.

There's no rocket science here. All else being equal, diving is safer for those who are good at it. Read some training standards, watch some classes and watch some divers dive. Then put it all together.

You might do that and still not agree with me. That's ok and I don't mind debating the issue. I even enjoy it but it get's tiresome trying to debate it with people who completely fail to present any case of their own. I don't quit understand the people who seem to want to defend the standards of a training agency without knowing what they are. They usually end up commenting on the inaccuracy typing and spelling or something else as relevant to the subject.. LOL

 

[bladephotog]

Mike, what I'm saying is that theoretically I did nothing wrong. But as an instructor friend pointed out, "that's why they call it decompression THEORY." I agree with you on that point. I've done this dive before. This time I got bent. Now I have a minimum of 6 months out of the water to think about it.

Now to the next point about a sharp reporter looking for a story, or axe to grind, as you previously stated. I don't think anyone appreciates a story written by someone with an axe to grind, do you?

You're talking about a very long term investigative report, looking into dive industry training standards. This takes a lot of money and most media outlets aren't going to invest either of those in something that affects so little of their circulation/viewership. Most of the general public could care less about a bunch of people spending money to injure or kill themselves.

How would you prove a anything anyway? It's just so, so subjective. Sure you can drop down on the shallow side at Gilboa and see some people have issues with their dive ability. I can see it but I'm no expert. Who would you quote? Reporters can't quote themselves.

On paper there are many, many, many more safe dives pulled off each year than unsafe ones. Until that changes substantially I doubt the media will get that interested. Who knows, that might be a good thing for us divers.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, what I'm saying is that theoretically I did nothing wrong. But as an instructor friend pointed out, "that's why they call it decompression THEORY." I agree with you on that point. I've done this dive before. This time I got bent. Now I have a minimum of 6 months out of the water to think about it.

Yes, there are just too many variables that we either can't know or can't control that tables and computers just can't take into account. I cross my fingers and do "extra" deco especially when I know I'm going to have to lug all my gear up a big hill to get it back to the truck. LOL so far the crossed fingers seem to have done the trick.

Now to the next point about a sharp reporter looking for a story, or axe to grind, as you previously stated. I don't think anyone appreciates a story written by someone with an axe to grind, do you?

You're talking about a very long term investigative report, looking into dive industry training standards. This takes a lot of money and most media outlets aren't going to invest either of those in something that affects so little of their circulation/viewership. Most of the general public could care less about a bunch of people spending money to injure or kill themselves.

How would you prove a anything anyway? It's just so, so subjective. Sure you can drop down on the shallow side at Gilboa and see some people have issues with their dive ability. I can see it but I'm no expert. Who would you quote? Reporters can't quote themselves.

All true enough.

On paper there are many, many, many more safe dives pulled off each year than unsafe ones. Until that changes substantially I doubt the media will get that interested. Who knows, that might be a good thing for us divers.

Yes, the vast majority of dives do NOT result in injury. The simple fact is that the worst diver can drop to the bottom, crawl around for a while and climb back out and usually not get hurt doing it. Unfortunately many seem to use this fact to suggest that traing is "good enough". I'd argue that you could get that far with no training at all.

Any correlation between training standards and diver skill and between diver skills and accidents isn't likely to be of much interest to anyone except divers. There is no smoking gun here to interest the public. It isn't even of interest to most divers.

 

[mbsdiver]

((Since I go to such great lengths to tie any criticism of an agency directly to training standards, I don't think it qualifies as bashing.))

OK HERE IS MY VIEW = IS IT THE TRAINING AGENCY STANDARDS? OR THE INSTRUCTORS HANDING OUT C-CARDS TO PEOPLE THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE THEM. I HAVE SEEN SOME INSTRUCTORS THAT DO NOT NEED TO BE INSTRUCTORS & THAT GOES FOR DIVEMASTERS 2.

 

[marshallkarp]

This is just out of curiosity and no disrespect intended. Do you know the Dive Profile Setting on your computer? This shows a minute by minute record of your dive. Now, assuming the victim had a dive computer with a Profile Setting, could not they compare that with the Profiles of the other people in her original group? Wouldn't this give some kind of indication when and where she had a problem? Wouldn't it be like Black Box data on airliners?

Again, no disrespect intended, just curious of anyone else thought of this?

 

[Sledge]

From my S&R class, you usually give the victim's dive computer to the EMTs/police so they can do exactly that.

 

[IndyScott]

To show my Support I will be diving at Gilboa This Weekend!!!