Incident - Spiegel Grove

[**ping**]

It seems like there were a couple of DM's/Instructors on the boat if you read through the article. However, who in his right mind piles 26 (!!) divers on a boat. How are they all gonna fit on the ascent line if they splash at the same time?

Not speaking about the undoubtedly other boats present at the site.

26 divers... thats ridiculous. They even speak about corralling divers in... talk about cattle boats...

 

[superstar]

It seems like there were a couple of DM's/Instructors on the boat if you read through the article. However, who in his right mind piles 26 (!!) divers on a boat. How are they all gonna fit on the ascent line if they splash at the same time?

Not speaking about the undoubtedly other boats present at the site.

26 divers... thats ridiculous. They even speak about corralling divers in... talk about cattle boats...

A few things to consider, 26 divers consume air at a different rate so 26 divers do not ascend at the same time, some come up sooner than others, don't you remember the part about coming up with 500 lbs.
Also, if a diver is breathing from a snorkel at the surface he must be out of air meaning he didn't come up soon enough, if this is the case, how can you put blame on the boat for this?

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

We'd had no current at all, the day we dove it. On our last safety stop, coming up the anchor line, the current very suddenly picked up. All of the divers on the line looked like windsocks in a gust of wind. One second, we were vertical and enjoying what had been a nice and easy dive, and the next second, we were all straight out horizontal. It was humorous, and the current really wasn't too bad, but it could have been worse.

In Cozumel, after diving the C-53, the safety stop was like climbing in the ring with Mohammed Ali. That three-minute safety stop seemed to last forever... The current just pummeled the crap out of us.

 

[wreckchick]

First, I'll respond to Andy....

There is nothing dumber than doing a blue water ascent in a ripping current unless it's part of the dive plan and the boat is watching for you. If you want to find yourself MILES from your dive boat, go right ahead and do it, but all those divers that came up on other mooring balls did it right. If your boat is tied to the ship, you'd better come up on something tied to the ship.

This is not that hard a dive, but does have unpredictable currents. If you stay close to the deck and in the lee of the current you should be able to make it back to the line you descended on. I've done 6-7 dives on her and not ever had a problem getting back to my line.

Kudos to all the boats that participated in getting everyone back to shore in one piece. Sounds like a mess and the professionals out there got it all sorted without losing anyone and no loss of life and that sounds like it was a distinct possibility at one point.

Rachel

 

[Soggy]

f
if you can't make the line, just ascend slowly, and, once on the surface, make
yourself bouyant and deploy your safety sausage.

As a matter of practice, if you are completely unable to return to the line, I would ammend that by saying, "deploy a surface marker, then ascend slowly". You want to notify the boat you are not where they expect you to be as soon as humanly possible.

 

[StSomewhere]

Big Boats VS 6 packs

Don't the bigger (cattle) boats have DM's on the boat ready to assist? As I understand it 6 packs do not require anyone besides the Capt. So to generalize and say that 6 Packs are better might not be accurate... Yes crowded boats may be a liability especialy if it is a "Ship of Fools" (Listening to Erasure right now) but if they have a DM ready to assist it might be in a better position than a boat trying to manouver with just 1 person on it.

The bigger boats do hold up better when the seas pick up vs. the smaller ones. OTOH, a bigger boat can be run as a 6 pack if necessary (crew size, capt qualifications, etc.). Few charters in the keys actually put a DM in the water, the exception is if someone is paying for a "guide".

FWIW, I like Jerry's version of "Ship of Fools".

 

[H2Andy]

I would ammend that by saying, "deploy a surface marker, then ascend slowly". You
want to notify the boat you are not where they expect you to be as soon as humanly possible.

yessir... quite right

i didn't mention it because i've never seen an OW diver who carried a lift bag or
who could deploy it without task loading themselves over the edge (usually
in a runaway ascent)

it does appear simple, but it's a complicated skill, so i thought i'd leave it alone

but yeah, if you can handle one safely, by all means... it's the perfect thing
for the Grove

 

[DandyDon]

The bigger boats do hold up better when the seas pick up vs. the smaller ones. OTOH, a bigger boat can be run as a 6 pack if necessary (crew size, capt qualifications, etc.). Few charters in the keys actually put a DM in the water, the exception is if someone is paying for a "guide".

FWIW, I like Jerry's version of "Ship of Fools".

While I prefer a Key Largo Op with a maximum load of 10 divers, along with the Skipper & First Mate/DM - there are several fine Ops there who do a fine job of taking larger boat loads out to the reefs & wrecks. I've not dived with this Op, but I see nothing to suggest they did anything to cause the problems.

26 divers leaving a deck for one mooring line will take some time, and different divers will use their tanks at different rates. It may get crowded on the line during ascents, but anyone who can't deal with that shouldn't be out there. The deep stop can be done at 1/2 max depth + a few feet and the safety stop can also be done between 10-20 feet. I carry a Jon line for such times, but you can fit a lot of divers on a line doing safety stops.

Also, if a diver is breathing from a snorkel at the surface he must be out of air meaning he didn't come up soon enough, if this is the case, how can you put blame on the boat for this?

Yes, or he had 500# or more left in his tank and just did not think to use it on the line. This happens - but a lesson for some to accept here is that that 500# safety reserve is to use if needed - not safe to make a skipper happy.

The glaring fact to me is that the Certified diver drowned on the surface while snorkeling on the line. That's totally diver error, and the crew is to be commended for saving him as they did.

 

[StSomewhere]

While I prefer a Key Largo Op with a maximum load of 10 divers, along with the Skipper & First Mate/DM - there are several fine Ops there who do a fine job of taking larger boat loads out to the reefs & wrecks. I've not dived with this Op, but I see nothing to suggest they did anything to cause the problems.

I guess my point is that the larger boats aren't always cattleboats (but yes, mostly in Key Largo they are) and that you can get knocked around a good bit on some of the smaller boats when the seas pick up.

I also agree that saving your reserve on the surface like this diver did in that situation is probably a bad idea. I also think using your snorkel in rougher seas is a terrible idea. I think WAY too much emphasis is put on the snorkel in OW classes. Snorkels are for snorkeling. Waiting for the boat should be done IMO with your head above water so you can see what's going on.

 

[DandyDon]

At the worst, if a diver is out of tank gas, and can't breathe thru the snorkel without drowning, forget both and get your face to breathable air. Inflate your BC by mouth, drop weights if needed.