Incident - Spiegel Grove

[DeputyDan]

My first ever ocean dive was in the Keys on Molasses Reef - 48 divers on the boat.

Didn't know any different then.

 

[Soggy]

i didn't mention it because i've never seen an OW diver who carried a lift bag or
who could deploy it without task loading themselves over the edge (usually
in a runaway ascent)

it does appear simple, but it's a complicated skill, so i thought i'd leave it alone

but yeah, if you can handle one safely, by all means... it's the perfect thing
for the Grove

I agree, it is more difficult than it looks, and that most OW divers don't have bags. My opinion is that they shouldn't be diving in these conditions if they don't have/can't use a bag, but you know my feelings on training and limitations

 

[pilot fish]

I have dove the USS Spiegel Grove 3 times and each time the most difficult part of the dive was at the surface. On my first dive in 3 to 5 ft swells I went from the tag line to the granny line with my snorkel but took a lot of water and had to switch to my reg. As someone mentined here already, forget your snorkel in rough seas at the beginning and end of the dive. If you have 500 psi at the surface, as you should have, better to use it to get along the line and onto the boat safely.

 

[deeper thoughts]

without beating a dead horse, we have started compiling data to see if high sea conditions were a factor in most spiegal incidents

 

[String]

All students here are taught how to use a DSMB and deploy underwater before we'll qualify them as the basic level. Its a vital skill here needed on just about every dive so if you cant do it safely, you arent safe to dive so dont get signed off.

Its NOT a difficult skill but like anything else, needs a bit of practice.

 

[nauidiver2004]

A few things to consider, 26 divers consume air at a different rate so 26 divers do not ascend at the same time, some come up sooner than others, don't you remember the part about coming up with 500 lbs.
Also, if a diver is breathing from a snorkel at the surface he must be out of air meaning he didn't come up soon enough, if this is the case, how can you put blame on the boat for this?

Just because a diver was breathing from his snorkel on the surface DOES NOT in any way indicate that he arrived at the surface with less than 500lbs in his cylinder.

Research has shown us over and over again the people will respond to a situation the way they are trained. This diver may have been trained that when on the surface breathing thru the snorkel. This would become the norm. Difficulties arise when an individual fails to recognize a stimulus that changes the norm. This is a common occurance. The added stimulus causes stress and the individual is unable to apply the appropriate response to the situation. A sort of tunnel vision develops and a person may continue to apply an inappropriate response to little or no effect.

Long and short of it, If a diver is trained that when on the surface you breath thru your snorkel, that is what he will do. Even though he may have an adequate supply of air strapped to his back attached to a regulator that may even be in his hand; It is quite possible that with the stress of fighting a current and difficult surface conditions the thought of putting the regulator in his mouth may actually never occur to him.

All I'm saying is that we don't know what condition his air supply was in and we do not have enough information to make any inference.

 

[nauidiver2004]

As an example, How many times have we seen someone at the back of the boat, hanging on to the ladder, bouncing aoriund in a two foot chop, struggling to hold thier breath and take off thier fins? And how many times have you had to remind that person to PUT YOUR REGULATOR IN YOUR MOUTH before they listen?

 

[Scubasw]

I don't think the size of the boat has anything to do with this situation. I've dove from the boat in question as well as several others in the Key Largo area, as well as much smaller boats, ie; locals fishing boat barely large enough for him and 2 divers. I look at the boat operator as I would a cab driver. As long as he gets me to the mooring and is waiting for me at the end he's met my expectations. Everything else is just gravy. I am a firm believer that all divers are responsible for their own plan/skills/fitness/ability/judgement/common sense. I am the final say so in getting myself into the water. If the boat captain takes me where I asked/paid/signed on for, everything from there on is on me.

People often want to blame others for what went wrong, when in most cases it was the victim's own fault. I commend the dive boat Captains/Dive Masters and others involved for saving this victim's life while still safe-guarding everyone else. Whether they were on a 6-pack or a 30 passenger "cattle boat" they went well above what many people would have done.

The Spiegel Grove is an "Advanced dive" even on the calmest of days. This has nothing to do with what your cert card says. I know plenty of "Advanced Divers" that are not ready for the Spiegel Grove due to the depth, currents, changing conditions, possible overhead environment (too many go in with no concept of what their getting into), failure to correctly calculate air consumption, follow an acceptable dive plan, have the needed skills (snorkel swim back to the boat, you can go through 500 psi on the surface awfully fast when swimming hard against a current.), navigate back to the right up-line and all those other skills the Advanced Cert seems to say you have. I don't feel the Captain or DM are responsible for you once you step off the boat. You are responsible for yourself!

 

[scububa]

As an example, How many times have we seen someone at the back of the boat, hanging on to the ladder, bouncing aoriund in a two foot chop, struggling to hold thier breath and take off thier fins? And how many times have you had to remind that person to PUT YOUR REGULATOR IN YOUR MOUTH before they listen?

I have the opposite problem when diving on a boat where they want you take off your BC before you get on the ladder. "Take you your regulator OUT of your mouth!" they remind me as they pull the BC up and I am hanging like a landed trout

 

[dlent]

What classes teach how to deploy a bag properly? I'd like to learn how to use one.