If you had to choose, 80% or 100% for deco gas and why.

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If 80/20 was better than 100% they would be using it in chambers.

Remind me again which chambers are full of water?

As I've already made inescapably clear, if deco efficiency is the sole consideration, you guys would only be using one deco gas: 100% for all stops regardless of depth. Nobody does that, because know they'd die. Everything else is just a circle-jerk about what you do or don't feel is worth worrying about in terms of a CNS hit.
 
Doc, you're entire argument is based on the imaginary CNS clock which is not a valid measurement of oxygen exposure. You keep repeating yourself and dodging questions. Give it a rest.
 
OP:
This has been discussed to death, there is nothing new here other than how clever you can be at inciting a DIR/solo diver riot just to light up your last star and a half...

Lol, I have no idea what those stars are, and if I could figure out how to turn all the crap off under my name I'd do it. Tried two days ago but the profile interface on this board is utterly unintuitive.

As to the novelty of the answers, I'm fine with that. I'm looking for people's personal takes on it, and what's important to them. Some factors are more important to people than others. As an example, boosting could be a factor. Where I used to live, we had trouble finding an O2 booster, so 80% was much easier to get. Some people also really want to eliminate inert gas from deco, and minus the air brakes, feel that it's a much better way to go. That's where my curiosity lies.

---------- Post added July 17th, 2014 at 07:18 AM ----------

100%

Otherwise the sticker on my O2 bottle would be wrong ;)

Totally valid consideration. I just had to change my stickers...pain in the a$$ :)

---------- Post added July 17th, 2014 at 07:30 AM ----------

Let me add a new wrinkle to this since CNS toxicity is being discussed. If the oxygen clock is a myth, does that mean the rebreather divers posting on this thread will switch their setpoint to 1.6 on ascent since that's the maximum "safe" efficient ppO2?
 
I ran a monoplace chamber using 100% oxygen. I can guarantee you, people can and do seize at 2 ATA and 2.5 ATA. Air brakes every 30 minutes are mandatory. I've had two multiplace Navy schedule 6 chamber rides by necessity. Air brakes there every 30 minutes.


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Doc, you're entire argument is based on the imaginary CNS clock which is not a valid measurement of oxygen exposure. You keep repeating yourself and dodging questions. Give it a rest.

Care to enlighten us all with your omniscient understanding of the relationship between inspired PO2 and time of exposure? Because until you do, I’m a bit confused as to your insistence that an arbitrary PO2 limit is really important for avoiding a CNS hit, but that length of exposure to PO2(s) is irrelevant to avoiding the same thing.

I’m perfectly happy to answer for you: you don’t understand how it works, but so far ignoring the clock has worked for the size of the dives you’re doing, so it’s not a hard and fast rule. No disagreement from me, I’ve done dives where my CNS ended in the 400% range. You won’t catch me doing that kind of stuff back to back to back, though, and I make no suggestion that just because I’ve gotten away with it, the whole CNS clock concept is “bunk.”

PO2 matters, but it's obviously not everything - or I'd be dead from a lot of air dives in the 240' range. Length of exposure matters, but it's obviously not everything, or a whole bunch of us would be dead from just doing our deco. But the idea that CNS is somehow completely useless is horse:censored:.

Remind me again who breathes water?

I'll indulge you for one reply more, since I should have maybe used smaller words in my earlier post. You submit that if 80% were "better" than 100% it'd be used in chambers, and then seem to think you've spiked the football by pointing out that OMG it isn't! However, you're missing (for your sake, I hope deliberately) the fact that in water deco and a chamber are two very different environments.

In the chamber, you’re likely warmer, certainly not submerged, and a whole lot less likely to have elevated CO2 levels due to breathing through a regulator – three things that, shockingly, have all been shown to increase human tolerance to elevated PO2s. And of course, you won’t :censored:ing drown in the chamber if you do suffer a hit. In the water, conversely, all the factors I just mentioned favor a CNS hit happening and you’re probably going to drown if it happens. This kind of ‘probability of harm’ times ‘magnitude of harm’ equals ‘risk’ way of thinking is something you might want to explore further on your own…I’m told it comes in handy in life sometimes.

Now, pay attention, because this next bit involves you…where it really comes in handy is when you want to use a big word like “better” without sounding like you may have, on occasion, lost points otherwise awarded for not drooling on the paper. This is because determining whether one option (say, 80% O2) is better than another option (say, 100% O2) really requires that one look at all the possible risks and benefits involved in a given context. So, while the marginal deco efficiency of 100% O2 might make it better than 80% in a chamber, where CNS hits are much less likely and much less of a problem, the same marginal deco efficiency difference might be quite irrelevant in the water, where CNS hits are significantly more likely and generally result in death, and you’re not trying to treat existing bubbles to boot.

Did I clear that up for you, or would you like to try being glib once more?
 
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100%, but it'd never be my first or only deco gas by choice. It maximizes off-gassing on the longest stops. Deeper stops/early off-gassing would be covered by a different gas (guess...).

I see little validation to concerns over PPO2 vs MOD with 100%. Precision deco buoyancy is a critical skill-set. If you're on dives that require a 2nd deco gas (100%) you should have the training and experience to hold stops; after all you're supposed to be at the next step to trimix by that point.

It's one of the reasons I like the TecRec system. You don't use 2+ deco gasses until Tec50 level. If limited to 1 gas (Tec40/45) and given the depths involved; 50% is usually optimal in the first instance (especially with VPM planning). 100% becomes necessary for more extensive deco schedules on more extreme dives; the preserve of those who've accumulated sufficient experience and skill to not worry about holding an accurate stop depth.

I also dive in the tropics/developing world. 100% is readily accessible. 80% is a headache to obtain.
 
Doc, you're entire argument is based on the imaginary CNS clock which is not a valid measurement of oxygen exposure. You keep repeating yourself and dodging questions. Give it a rest.

Now I have to say you're full of crap, AJ. While the CNS clock and OTUs are not an exact science, there is nothing imaginary about oxygen toxicity. It has caused deaths. Well documented. If you want to say that pure O2 is more efficient for offgassing, fine. If you want to point to the pressure gradient differential, ok. But all of that is already accounted for in the deco algorithms. So when the deco program says that you'll save 6 minutes of a 40 minute deco profile, that is already taking into account the pressure gradient and the efficiency of O2. 100% IS more efficient. Just not that much so. And it absolutely, positively does carry higher risk.

Dopplers tech diving blog has a whole rant about how o2 breaks are a myth.

And maybe you should listen to one of Steve's talks about it. I think you have completely misunderstood his point.
 

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