I Don't Need A Bumper Sticker For Nitrox

[marcienko]

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :no :no :no

 

[hlsooner]

CGA rule (3.1.1) which list 29 CFR 1910.1200(f) (9) states

"the labels applied by the gas supplier to identify the conatiner contents shall not be defaced or removed by the user until the cylinder is empty with the provisions of 29 CFR 1910.1200(f)(9)

Putting a nitrox label is prudent. If you fell off the planet tomorrow most would assume air is in the tank. The risk is not to you but for those who follow. There are volumes of CGA/DOT documents to back up the stores request to label the cylinder.

This is a very valid point, but as I stated, the tank already has a different VIP sticker, colored green to indicate oxygen or enriched air, which clearly states this tank is clean to oxygen service standards. Also, I brought the tanks in with a piece of tape on them from the previous fill indicating 32%, and would have had no problem putting a piece of tape on after the fill indicating the percentage O2.

The issue was whether one of the large NITROX-ENRICHED AIR stickers was mandatory to idiot-proof the tank. My understanding is that they are not, but as some have pointed out in this thread, if the filler is concerned about liability then they may choose to fill based only on their individual requirements.

 

[ekewaka]

The issue was whether one of the large NITROX-ENRICHED AIR stickers was mandatory to idiot-proof the tank. My understanding is that they are not, but as some have pointed out in this thread, if the filler is concerned about liability then they may choose to fill based only on their individual requirements.

I don't blame them for that. The liability laws in this country are just absurd.

 

[AXL72]

Just wanted to post a problematic encounter I had last weekend.

A couple of months ago, I purchased some Worthington tanks from Fill Express. The tanks have a nice green VIP sticker that clearly states they are clean for oxygen service. But Fill Express recommends against sticking other large NITROX stickers on the tanks to prevent corrosion. Furthermore, these large stickers are not required, and actually don't do any good to prevent the wrong tank being filled since anyone can buy these nitrox bumper stickers at a dive shop and put them on any tank.

Last weekend I needed to obtain fills before going out on a trip in Miami. I did not have time to get gas at Fill Express, so I went to the dive shop that ran the boat I was going out on. As I walk in, the employee who was filling nitrox tanks asked if I needed air. The following exchange ensued:

Me: I need to get some nitrox in my tanks (note small stickers were still on them indicating previous fill was 32%)

Employee: I can't put nitrox in those tanks, they don't have a nitrox sticker, as he points to the large bumper stickers he has for sale.

Me: You don't need one of those stickers for nitrox, besides, this VIP clearly states these tanks are oxygen clean.

Employee: I don't care what that little sticker says, I am not putting nitrox in those tanks without one of these (pointing to bumper stickers) on your tank.

Me: Well Fill Express, the premiere technical diving gas filler in the area has no problem putting nitrox in these tanks.

Employee: Well they obviously don't know what they are doing.

Me: Okay, if your air is nitrox clean, then just give me air (smiling and realizing this is going nowhere)

How can a person be allowed to fill tanks with nitrox and have no clue what a VIP sticker means?

EDITED ==>Good story

 

[AXL72]

I don't want to name the shop, since I know the owners and they should not be smeared for the actions of one less than knowledgeable employee. Let's just say a shop on Miami Beach.

ooops......lemme go re-read the PADI requirements for a NITROX tank.

 

[Scared Silly]

The liability laws in this country are just absurd.

I do not think it is laws that are the problem but the people who are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves and their actions.

If the OP knows the owners I would b very interested in what they have to say about this as they may well have instructed the filler as to the sticker requirement. I can see there being different interpertation of the CGA rules. But I would say that any cylinder with a Nitrox/O2 clean VIP is enough in my book to know that the cylinder may not contain air. Next thing you know we will need two different values for our cylinders (what a mess for EU folks).

 

[Charlie99]

. I can see there being different interpertation of the CGA rules. But I would say that any cylinder with a Nitrox/O2 clean VIP is enough in my book to know that the cylinder may not contain air.

The VIP sticker may be enough to tell you and the owner of the tank that it may not contain air, but is it sufficient labeling to prevent the inadvertant use of the tank by a diver that has OW certification and nothing else?

The intent of the bumper sticker is to be obvious enough that there is negligible chance of it being erroneously used by another diver that thinks it is air. When you think of the bumper stickers as performing this function, then it makes sense that many fill operations require bumper stickers on single tanks, but don't require them on a double set.

Charlie Allen

 

[in_cavediver]

CGA rule (3.1.1) which list 29 CFR 1910.1200(f) (9) states

"the labels applied by the gas supplier to identify the conatiner contents shall not be defaced or removed by the user until the cylinder is empty with the provisions of 29 CFR 1910.1200(f)(9)

Putting a nitrox label is prudent. If you fell off the planet tomorrow most would assume air is in the tank. The risk is not to you but for those who follow. There are volumes of CGA/DOT documents to back up the stores request to label the cylinder.

Since others have identified with the CGA labeling, I'll go along with that for now. I mandate ONLY cga approved labeling be used for the tanks and trust me, that silly nitrox band isn't CGA approved for a tank label. It simply doesn't convey meaningful information, such as the actual contents of the tank.

here is an interesting link on CGA standards for labeling, use and storage. Its not the actual CGA phamplets but hey, google found this one quick.

SO, now that we are going to label scuba tanks via CGA standards, let talk about what is really required. First, what is required on the label. We need contents, hazard data, supplier information, spill/leak containment and information regarding the MSDS sheet for it right? (does the MSDS come in plastic card to take with me on a dive?) What about toxicity for use while diving?

Don't even start to think about color coding - which is also used and suggested by CGA.

 

[ekewaka]

The intent of the bumper sticker is to be obvious enough that there is negligible chance of it being erroneously used by another diver that thinks it is air.

Anyone who uses my uses my tanks without my permission deserves to oxtox and drown.
Of course that is not likely to happen, because I have only 300 bar din valves.

 

[in_cavediver]

The VIP sticker may be enough to tell you and the owner of the tank that it may not contain air, but is it sufficient labeling to prevent the inadvertant use of the tank by a diver that has OW certification and nothing else?

The intent of the bumper sticker is to be obvious enough that there is negligible chance of it being erroneously used by another diver that thinks it is air. When you think of the bumper stickers as performing this function, then it makes sense that many fill operations require bumper stickers on single tanks, but don't require them on a double set.

Charlie Allen

10 years ago before technical diving became more mainstream and nitrox was just starting to take off, there might have been an arguement for not teaching nitrox and tank contents in the beginning.

Now, with everyone jumping on the tec bandwagon, more and more divers are seeing tanks following very different labeling standards. Personally, I see zero point in labeling my private tanks with $8 band stickers to cover a training deficiency of other divers. For the number of tanks I have, this is a real cost to me. (over $100 each year).

TEACH ALL DIVERS TO KNOW WHATS IN THIER TANK!

We don't need poorly thought out solutions to a problem. The answer is so obvious that its silly. Who really came up with the idea is OK to tell divers 'grab a tank, if its not labeled, its air'. You don't have to teach much. Just what an analyzer is and that they are responsible for ensuring thier breathing gas is what they expect.