OP
I do not agree with, "Dive and Let Dive."
- Thread starter tursiops
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Belzelbub
Contributor
We do not want people diving in a way that affects OUR diving negatively.
If an unknown person drowns, then your life is not affected, but if the dive site is closed as a result, then it is a different matter.
A valid point as most of us dive because of the environment. See my text above.
Endangering the buddy is probably true. See my "OUR diving" comment.
True.
Point at the diver, then show the "look" sign and point at the environment. Give the problem sign.
If this does not work, then give the mid finger and point at the environtment again.
See, we already have a vocabulary for this.
If all this fails, cursing through the reg is an option.
Have you ever met an uninformed know-it-all type?
- You would swiftly revert to D&LD!
And if you meet an informed narcissist, then you'll revert twice as fast.
I leave for 2 hours and it's all my fault and apparently I'm Satan... have you all been hanging out with my wife!?!
pauldw
Contributor
No man is an island,
Entire of itself;
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
As well as if a promontory were:
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were.
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
John Donne
SlugLife
Contributor
(I haven't caught up with 11 pages of replies yet)
2) I fully understand the safety-guardrails of Open Water class rules. However, not everything needs a cert, or must follow every Open Water rule forever-and-ever. Many of these "rules" were learned the hard way, through deaths or wetsuit-pooping moments, but these "rules" and standards are often redundancy and over-simplification of topics too complex for a brand-new diver.
Most "rules" are about redundancy. Most fatal dive accidents tend to meet a "3 strikes, you're dead" criteria; where 3-or-more problems happened at once. Often 1-2 were the result of divers intentionally ignoring standards for their current level of training, equipment, and experience.
"Always dive with a buddy," is simple redundancy and easy to explain for relatively new divers. A solo-diver may technically be breaking that rule, but with proper training, equipment, skills, experience, and attentiveness may be several times safer than an average insta-buddy pair. Metaphorically; our a solo-diver gets 1-strike, but with redundancy and skills returns back to zero-strikes.
When it comes to non-standard equipment configurations; I don't see a big deal, so long as you're doing it safe, have redundancy, know what you're doing, and when appropriate have associated skills. (It also doesn't hurt to ask for a 2nd opinion on ScubaBoard) Just because someone moved a d-ring, or tried slinging a pony-bottle a slightly different way isn't something to get worked up about. Where did sidemount, and a lot of other scuba-innovations come from? People innovating and experimenting. The technology of Scuba only moves forward with people trying new and creative things.
3) Whenever I hear stories of 2-divers dying; there's a STRONG probability that one diver heavily influenced the death of the other. Perhaps the buddy encouraged dangerous behavior, egged them on, panicked, used both divers air, etc. While I'm not attacking buddy-diving itself, I will note there's a legit issue of a "Buddy Hazard" that divers should be aware of. Regardless of who is liable in court, you the diver should always act as if you are 100.0% responsible for your own safety.
Whether I agree or disagree depends entirely on nuance and context.
- If someone is actually being dangerous to themselves, the environment, other divers, or the diveability of a site, I do think we all have the right (and perhaps some obligation) to call them out.
- If someone is diving a little differently, bending an "intro Open Water rule," or farting in a wetsuit without a Master Wetsuit Flattuance Certification .... maybe chill a little, ask questions, see if they're doing it safely, and then caution them if it seems dangerous or there's something they can do better.
- Giant middle finger to any diver who encourages another diver to be unsafe.
2) I fully understand the safety-guardrails of Open Water class rules. However, not everything needs a cert, or must follow every Open Water rule forever-and-ever. Many of these "rules" were learned the hard way, through deaths or wetsuit-pooping moments, but these "rules" and standards are often redundancy and over-simplification of topics too complex for a brand-new diver.
Most "rules" are about redundancy. Most fatal dive accidents tend to meet a "3 strikes, you're dead" criteria; where 3-or-more problems happened at once. Often 1-2 were the result of divers intentionally ignoring standards for their current level of training, equipment, and experience.
"Always dive with a buddy," is simple redundancy and easy to explain for relatively new divers. A solo-diver may technically be breaking that rule, but with proper training, equipment, skills, experience, and attentiveness may be several times safer than an average insta-buddy pair. Metaphorically; our a solo-diver gets 1-strike, but with redundancy and skills returns back to zero-strikes.
When it comes to non-standard equipment configurations; I don't see a big deal, so long as you're doing it safe, have redundancy, know what you're doing, and when appropriate have associated skills. (It also doesn't hurt to ask for a 2nd opinion on ScubaBoard) Just because someone moved a d-ring, or tried slinging a pony-bottle a slightly different way isn't something to get worked up about. Where did sidemount, and a lot of other scuba-innovations come from? People innovating and experimenting. The technology of Scuba only moves forward with people trying new and creative things.
3) Whenever I hear stories of 2-divers dying; there's a STRONG probability that one diver heavily influenced the death of the other. Perhaps the buddy encouraged dangerous behavior, egged them on, panicked, used both divers air, etc. While I'm not attacking buddy-diving itself, I will note there's a legit issue of a "Buddy Hazard" that divers should be aware of. Regardless of who is liable in court, you the diver should always act as if you are 100.0% responsible for your own safety.
Cthippo
Contributor
Belzelbub
Contributor
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