How to kick effectively?

[ronscuba]

Or you could just be unaware of the silt you kick up, like most divers are. If you look behind a diver that is up to 2m from the sand, let's say 2-3 meters behind him, you'll almost always see the sand moving, looking like "small explosions" in the sand.


Standing still in front of a critter with some surge, staying in front of someone/something without eventually get pushed into it, backing up a few feet because you just swam past something that could be interesting (sure, you could helicopter turn, swim swim swim, heli again and swim back to what you wanted to see...), when working on something (eg tangled line) and needing to slightly reposition, ....

I don't kick up silt. Especially 2 meters up from the sand. I don't have 1000's of dives, but decently experienced with over 500. Been diving and shooting underwater video for over 10 years. I know how to get close to animal life, stay with them and yes, I do sometimes back kick when shooting video.

There are different types of diving, different gear, different techniques and individual diver preferences that work best for that type of diving.

This thread is in the New Divers Section.

OP, if you are still reading. You are newly certified. Keep your Atomic Split Fins. Get some dive experience under your belt. Decide what type of diving you like. Try out other peoples fins if you get a chance and then make your decision after you have gained some experience.

 

[dmaziuk]

Back to OP: the proper flutter kick with split fins, force fins, long fins, and any other kind of fins is low-amplitude "whip" with mostly-straight leg. Kick with glutes/upper hip/lower back & abs, not with your knees. Two things that really help are trim and ankle stretch. In head-up trim your downkick's pushing your lower body up, and even a bit back if you go wide enough, instead of forward. It is also what kicks up the silt -- although if you're close enough to the bottom, that's going to happen anyway. And when they say "point your toes" they mean like this:

 

[urbaneve71]

Just remember that if you do a flutter kick make sure you don't bend at the knees. You won't go far and just end wearing yourself out.

Try to keep your legs straight. I know everyone here is talking about the frog kick but me personally I like the flutter kick (and that's cuz I was a competition swimmer....it's ingrained in me at this point lol). But seriously a proper flutter kick will gain speed and less exertion

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes. Most of the time my knees are bent a little since I'm poking around looking for shells or flounders. I straighten my legs and use those thigh muscles when I want to go fast for some reason. Still can't believe the speed you generate that way--even with split fins.

 

[rongoodman]

, backing up a few feet because you just swam past something that could be interesting (sure, you could helicopter turn, swim swim swim, heli again and swim back to what you wanted to see...)

You can't do much of a helicopter turn without a working back kick on one side or the other.

 

[Colliam7]

The OP has generated some interesting discussion.

I fall into the category of divers who use a frog kick almost exclusively for recreational diving. And, I use fins that allow me to perform that kick efficiently. I also use back kicks, and do helicopter turns at times. A primary feature of my diving is that I ALMOST NEVER, EVER use my hands for propulsion in diving. It is a religion for me – do NOT use hands!!!

I also teach that way. I tell my students that they should actively develop a frog kick, even if they already know how to perform a flutter. After that they will find that it will meet 99% of their needs.

To the OP: you asked for finning videos. Here are four links related to developing a frog kick.





I STRONGLY encourage you to develop your frog kick. Once you do, you will seldom find a need for a flutter. The frog is by far the most energy efficient kick for recreational diving (particularly if you actually want to see something while you dive, which means learning that diving is not an underwater race). Performed properly, with the proper fins, the frog kick also provides powerful propulsion. I can drive myself forward, even in a drysuit with doubles and deco bottles, with a frog kick, if needed. So, I can easily propel myself forward in a wetsuit and single cylinder for all of my recreational diving. The utility of the frog kick is NOT in any way limited to technical diving. It is ideal fro recreational diving.

It is virtually impossible to effectively use a flutter kick within 5 feet of the bottom and not stir up some sand or silt. The people who say they don’t are also the divers who seldom look back through their fins to see what they have left behind them. Or, they are using a modified flutter, with bent knees (which expands the distance from the bottom, and changes the thrust vector a bit), which is a very useful kick but also inefficient. One of the ‘fun dive’ activities I include in my OW classes is to position OW students during my quarry classes near several well-known underwater objects, and have them hover and watch other divers swim by, usually using a flutter kick What they see is almost always mindbogglingly illuminating – they come out of the water after the dive saying, ‘OMG, do I really do that when I am swimming?’ (and they are do, because they are still using a flutter close to the bottom).

I very definitely recommend you get rid of the split fins. NOW. Sell them on eBay, get a decent price for them, and buy some good fins that will support efficient frig kick finning. And, back kick finning. And helicopter turns. Splits are not BAD fins. They will work to provide propulsion. But, you are unlikely to learn proper finning technique with them, at least in a reasonable time frame, and you may well become frustrated with their inefficiency. Frankly, I can do a lot with splits, albeit with limited efficiency. But, I suspect that is because I developed good finning techniques before I ever used them, and I figured out how to make them work AFTER I had acquired that knowledge base. I don’t disagree with the several posters, who have said that they CAN (manage to) do a frog kick with splits. And, stiffer splits do make it a bit easier. But, unless you absolutely require splits (and few divers really do) you are better off with non-split fins. Plus, you really do want to learn to back kick, and make helicopter turns. It makes recreational diving so much more fun.

 

[ronscuba]

....

I tell my students that they should actively develop a frog kick, even if they already know how to perform a flutter. After that they will find that it will meet 99% of their needs........

I STRONGLY encourage you to develop your frog kick. Once you do, you will seldom find a need for a flutter. ...

Having a good frog kick is a without a doubt a great thing to have.

However, a frog kick meets 99% of a divers needs and you seldom need to flutter ? What kind of diving ?

I see you are a Tech Dive Instructor, but since this thread is in the new diver section, lets limit this to open water recreational diving and the following types of situations:

- shore diving, you can surface kick out to the drop point or kick uw to the drop point. drop point 50 yards or more out

- drift or current diving, there are plenty of times when you need to maintain your position against the current or swim against the current

- anchored/moored boat diving, there is almost always some kind of current, typical dive is out and back to the boat, meaning 50% of the time you are swimming against the current, however strong or mild it is.

- swimming animal is not is your direct path, but you want to see it close, for photo/video or just viewing, you have to kick to get to it and stay close to it.

In my signature is a link to my UW videos. I am not a pro, but I have recorded a lot of quality footage. I almost always flutter.

To get close and stay close to swimming animals involves kicking. Key is not to take a direct path to the animal, but to get out in front of it so it comes to you. Or swim parallel and take an angle. Since animal life is almost never in your direct path, you need to kick to get to it.

If I frog kicked 99% of the time, I would never have gotten shots of whale sharks, eagle rays, turtles, fish schools, etc..

 

[Colliam7]

I repeat, 'However, a frog kick meets 99% of a divers needs' and I 'seldom need to flutter'. '99%' is not '100%'. 'Seldom' is not 'never'. There are times when I will flutter. Those times are uncommon, not nonexistent. Actually, I probably use a modified flutter more often than I do a full flutter, when in situations where there are space constraints, and I cannot perform a frog kick without touching other divers, or objects. Now, as for the question, 'what kind of diving?':

First, I almost never chase underwater animals. I often find that, if I stay relatively still, I get a better view and don't startle the animals, so that they swim away. I have seen more rays - up close and personal - holding a still position on the Dixie Arrow (a WWII wreck off the NC coast) than I have anywhere else, or holding a still position on the Navy Barges on St. Thomas. I see two types of underwater photographers when I dive: those that chase animals, and those that (wisely) hold position and wait. The latter group most often gets the better pictures, and actually sees more. It is funny watching divers trying to get pictures of turtles, when they try to chase them. They usually don't get good pictures - the turtles swim away. (OK, I will even share a pet peeve here. Too often, an eager photographer who swims after the turtles to get a good picture, drives the turtle away, so others in the group don't have a chance to see the animal.) If I see a turtle swimming at a distance, I generally slow down try to gauge the general pattern of swimming, and slowly position myself for a good look. Sometimes, it doesn't work. Often it does. Squid are the same. When I see a line of squid, with the middle ones feeding while the outriggers keep watch, I slow down, and approach cautiously. They are always fun to watch. I am more interested in sea horses than I am in chasing school of fish. To find them requires slow, patient finning, and good position control (which often involves a bit of turning and back-finning).

Second, shore diving. I dive on Bonaire, a lot. Probably, it is the (or one of the) world's best shore diving location. There is often surge in the shallows along the shore line at sites on the north or south end. I may need to flutter for 5 seconds at times to get through the surge right at the edge of the water. But, as often, I get out from shore quite easily by simply timing my finning (frog kick) strokes properly, and having proper fins to allow good propulsion with the frog. If I am doing a 60 minute dive, and I flutter for 30 seconds to get through the surge, and frog kick the rest of the time, think that qualifies as using my frog kick 99% of the time.

You, and any other diver, are free to use whatever works for you. Go for it. I am not suggesting that flutter kicking is 'bad'. (Nor am I suggesting that split fins are 'bad'.) I am saying to the OP that having only a flutter kick (which is unfortunately true of many divers) is inefficient.

My advice was, and is, to the OP, who asked about finning: learn a frog kick, early in your development. Learn how to back kick, early in your development. Learn how to helicopter turn, early in your development. (These useful finning techniques are not exclusively reserved for 'technical' diving, they are valuable tools for recreational diving.) Equip yourself with the fins that will give you the ability to perform all of those kicks, efficiently. Doing so will pay dividends throughout your diving career.

 

[The Chairman]

if you do a flutter kick make sure you don't bend at the knees.

I bend at the knees when I flutter.

 

[ronscuba]

Touche Colliam7.

Many here on Scubaboard prefer to frog kick. I prefer to flutter so I am in the minority on this board.

We are in agreement, chasing marine life is not the way to get good video or photos. But much of the time in open water, the animal is not going to come to you. You have to change your course and go to the animal. Chase is the wrong word. See the direction they are swimming, get out 10-15 feet front of it. This is how you get the head shot of the animal swimming to you. A flutter kick has the speed required to get out in front of the animal. Much of my video footage was obtained this way vs. blind luck of an animal oddly swimming towards a group of divers. If I happen to be this lucky, well, I can stay still and fin very slowly with a flutter kick too.

A good flutter kick is narrow in width. This is key as the goal is to move forward, not up, so you want to propel water behind you, not down. A good narrow width flutter kick is pushing most of it's force behind the diver, not down and will not silt up the sand if you are 5ft up from the bottom.

By all means learn different kicks. If one finds a certain type of kick is used a large majority of their time, pick a fin that best suits that type of kick. Be it a flutter kick or a frog kick.

BTW, want to see a good narrow width flutter kick ? Watch a freediver. Freediving is not scuba, but scuba divers can learn a lot about good flutter kicking from them. Fast forward to 1 minute 5 seconds