Question How to behave after uncontrolled ascent

[Degenerate]

Did you check the BCD/inflator after the dive as well?
If you sat out the second dive there would have been plenty of time to take a closer look at it and trying to figure out if it was really busted...?

Just playing devils advocate here and definitely not trying to call you out or anything, but I've seen more than one diver in rental gear jumping to the conclusion that the equipment is faulty when they in fact turned out to have no situational awareness whatsoever, going slightly positive can quickly turn into a rapid ascent if you don't handle it asap.

So, did you turn the gas back on at the boat and found the BCD was still inflating uncontrollable?
Did someone one the boat take a closer look at it, seeing as it was their equipment that they charge money for people to use?

 

[Herliyo]

Did you check the BCD/inflator after the dive as well?
If you sat out the second dive there would have been plenty of time to take a closer look at it and trying to figure out if it was really busted...?

Just playing devils advocate here and definitely not trying to call you out or anything, but I've seen more than one diver in rental gear jumping to the conclusion that the equipment is faulty when they in fact turned out to have no situational awareness whatsoever, going slightly positive can quickly turn into a rapid ascent if you don't handle it asap.

So, did you turn the gas back on at the boat and found the BCD was still inflating uncontrollable?
Did someone one the boat take a closer look at it, seeing as it was their equipment that they charge money for people to use?

When i returned to the boat and took of my equipment, deckman and boat captain checked it with me (yes, when we opened the tank again, BCD was still inflating uncontrollable) and the captain said smth like "ok we will fix it later" and then he hid this BCD somewhere inside of the boat.

 

[Degenerate]

When i returned to the boat and took of my equipment, deckman and boat captain checked it with me (yes, when we opened the tank again, BCD was still inflating uncontrollable) and the captain said smth like "ok we will fix it later" and then he hid this BCD somewhere inside of the boat.

Then they are definitely twats if they still wanted to charge you for anything that day IMO, I'd tell you to not go out with them again but I'll assume you've already come to that conclusion yourself.

 

[azstinger11]

just enough weight to hold you at your shallowest stop with cylinder(s) near near empty (500 psi) with empty BCD/wing and for you to ascend in a controlled manner due to possible neoprene expansion (relevant to thick wetsuits and neoprene dry suits).

The reason I bring this up is if you are already overweighted, then you have extra gas in your BCD (and possibly dry suit). We all know that gas expands. So that excess gas will make you even more buoyant. It is bad enough that you have a jammed power inflator. You were already taught (an assumption here) to deal with that by disconnecting the low pressure hose from your inflator.

TL;DR: the point is to reduce the amount of additional buoyancy force you experience when you start to ascend.

While that type of weight check is something I encourage everyone to do with their own gear, I have never once seen it done on a charter boat with rental gear. It's always unfortunately at the start of the dive with full tanks. I just don't see operators getting a crowd of people to a the first site, getting everyone geared up with 500 PSI tanks, doing a weight check, getting everyone back on the boat, tank swapping or filling, then doing the first dive. Particularly true in warm water destinations where people are more frequently on a guided dive and more frequently renting gear (more tourists). Ideally people have a good sense of their weight needs and its just tweaks. I mean i'm guilty of it on those times I've renter gear on a non-dive trip. I had no idea what weight I was in a 2/3 shorty with a unknown BCD, so just guessed, then adjusted dive 2.

Not saying its right that it happens that way, I just also don't see it changing for a "proper" weight check.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

While that type of weight check is something I encourage everyone to do with their own gear, I have never once seen it done on a charter boat with rental gear. It's always unfortunately at the start of the dive with full tanks. I just don't see operators getting a crowd of people to a the first site, getting everyone geared up with 500 PSI tanks, doing a weight check, getting everyone back on the boat, tank swapping or filling, then doing the first dive. Particularly true in warm water destinations where people are more frequently on a guided dive and more frequently renting gear (more tourists). Ideally people have a good sense of their weight needs and its just tweaks. I mean i'm guilty of it on those times I've renter gear on a non-dive trip. I had no idea what weight I was in a 2/3 shorty with a unknown BCD, so just guessed, then adjusted dive 2.

Not saying its right that it happens that way, I just also don't see it changing for a "proper" weight check.

I tell my students to do at the end of each dive while on vacation to dial it it. You can estimate fairly closely prior. I've only done it with steel cylinders but I imagine taking at AL80 at 500 psi may take some weight to make neutral or you can use a fish scale to determine how negative. Also You can determine how buoyant a wetsuit is. I discuss this on my blog. Add how much weight you need to snk in a pool and you are pretty close.

 

[azstinger11]

I tell my students to do at the end of each dive while on vacation to dial it it. You can estimate fairly closely prior. I've only done it with steel cylinders but I imagine taking at AL80 at 500 psi may take some weight to make neutral or you can use a fish scale to determine how negative. Also You can determine how buoyant a wetsuit is. I discuss this on my blog. Add how much weight you need to snk in a pool and you are pretty close.

lol i'll be sure to ask my dive op to let me pre-sink a wetsuit in a pool in advance of my dive.

Like I agree those are all good behaviors and with gear you own should be done. I just generally think its impractical and highly unlikely for rental gear at random destinations. Yeah estimation is easy the more you dive and if you take note of the gear/weight used. Just thinking of infrequent vacation divers, that don't take good notes, with random gear given to them 5 minutes before the boat leaves (which by volume, I would hazard guess represents the majority of divers on any given day). They aren't sinking wetsuits, doing a 500 PSI check (prior to the first dive), checking buoyancy with fish scales, etc. They are doing whatever the shop/DM recommends or using generic guessing, which usually leaves them overweighted instead of neutral.

 

[mcohen1021]

When i returned to the boat and took of my equipment, deckman and boat captain checked it with me (yes, when we opened the tank again, BCD was still inflating uncontrollable) and the captain said smth like "ok we will fix it later" and then he hid this BCD somewhere inside of the boat.

what dove op was this? need to put them on my do not fly list...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

lol i'll be sure to ask my dive op to let me pre-sink a wetsuit in a pool in advance of my dive.

Like I agree those are all good behaviors and with gear you own should be done. I just generally think its impractical and highly unlikely for rental gear at random destinations. Yeah estimation is easy the more you dive and if you take note of the gear/weight used. Just thinking of infrequent vacation divers, that don't take good notes, with random gear given to them 5 minutes before the boat leaves (which by volume, I would hazard guess represents the majority of divers on any given day). They aren't sinking wetsuits, doing a 500 PSI check (prior to the first dive), checking buoyancy with fish scales, etc. They are doing whatever the shop/DM recommends or using generic guessing, which usually leaves them overweighted instead of neutral.

Do you not own a wetsuit? Can you not access one? A ballpark should be sufficient (though I don't have enough data to back that up).
This isn't rocket science. Look at the buoyancy characteristics of AL80s at empty, average it out, and use that. A jacket style BCD is going to float by itself. A regulator assembly is going to sink. Do they cancel each other out? Maybe.

A wetsuit that is not worn will be more buoyant than one that is stretched while worn. The point is to get an approximate value.

If you don't do negative entries, there are a few methods you can try. Check out Pete Murray's method (that I placed on my blog).

The point is, there are things you can do prior to descending. You just have to use your head.

 

[azstinger11]

Do you not own a wetsuit? Can you not access one? A ballpark should be sufficient (though I don't have enough data to back that up).
This isn't rocket science. Look at the buoyancy characteristics of AL80s at empty, average it out, and use that. A jacket style BCD is going to float by itself. A regulator assembly is going to sink. Do they cancel each other out? Maybe.

A wetsuit that is not worn will be more buoyant than one that is stretched while worn. The point is to get an approximate value.

If you don't do negative entries, there are a few methods you can try. Check out Pete Murray's method (that I placed on my blog).

The point is, there are things you can do prior to descending. You just have to use your head.

I own plenty and know the buoyancy of them. This isn’t about me/my gear, honestly it not even about scubaboard readers, as that shows more interest in learning/continuing education. It’s about random divers showing and getting random gear, who won’t have read a random blog about buoyancy, probably don’t own gear at all, likely don’t keep notes, and dive once every year at max.

yes they can do all sorts of things to figure it out, the odds they have/are willing to? low at best.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I own plenty and know the buoyancy of them. This isn’t about me/my gear, honestly it not even about scubaboard readers, as that shows more interest in learning/continuing education. It’s about random divers showing and getting random gear, who won’t have read a random blog about buoyancy, probably don’t own gear at all, likely don’t keep notes, and dive once every year at max.

I don't think we should even try to address that demographic. I sure won't. Those people are going to show up to the boat, put on whatever weight the crew tells them, bounce around and break coral for 45 minutes give or take, and then get back on the boat. Do it again at the next dive site.

And there's not a thing anyone can do about that. It is what it is.