How Rigorous Should Training Be?

[PfcAJ]

So how do you measure that?

Let's say someone were to come up with a certification course that required a minimum of 100 dives and a minimum of 200 hours of training, costing $20,000, would that mean that the course you took was "short, cheap, and easily accessible?" Would the people who took that course be able to sneer at you, since you are obviously someone with low self-goals, low standards and an inherent complacent attitude?

Or would you automatically take that course to show that you have such high self-standards? If you say yes, then I think a couple of instructors would gladly set up the agency of your dreams for you.

Like most things, unfortunately, its ultimately subjective.

I've seen cavern courses offered for the low low cost of "free". Guess how many students that instructor got? Zero. That represents the far end of the spectrum.

On the other hand, there are $2000 dollar GUE courses that are not being filled by US based students. The other end of the spectrum.

Cost of the course often represents the worth of the instructor's time. Not always, but sometimes. I tried to schedule a class with a well known instructor, and he was booked for at least an entire YEAR. That says a lot. Without looking at a number of instructors, their cost, qualifications, experience, teaching methodologies, diving philosophies, etc, the prospective student is disadvantaged. When I took my first cave class in 2006, I didn't do any of that, because it didn't occur to me. I wish it did.

While the "standards" might be written, there is enough individual variation within the instructor cadre' within most organizations to allow wild variations. This, IMHO, is unacceptable.

I propose a forum/ mailing list for instructors to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of their students. This would allow an open forum discussion of cave students so instructors could work together to build competent, capable, proficient, cave divers, not just in skill but in academics. Peer reviewing of instructors is, from what I've seen, rather uncommon.

If it wasn't, the person I made that dive with at Peacock would have been able to perform basic cave skills, such as a frog kick.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I think it's a difference in access and motivation. A lot of my dives are done at JB, because on a 3-day diving trip it's easy and familiar. Seeking out and exploring new caves requires a time commitment to research leads, survey the area and figure out logistics. While I'd love to do some of that, I rarely have that kind of time. So instead, a lot of my diving is done puttering around stuff on the millpond.

If I lived closer and had the chance to dive there every weekend, I'd be very interested in doing more stuff off the beaten path like Kevin, Mat and a few others do.

John if you would come over we can get some new caves on your resume that arent anymore difficult than JB or Hole. Bozell is a great one to go see.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Like most things, unfortunately, its ultimately subjective.

I've seen cavern courses offered for the low low cost of "free". Guess how many students that instructor got? Zero. That represents the far end of the spectrum.

On the other hand, there are $2000 dollar GUE courses that are not being filled by US based students. The other end of the spectrum.

Cost of the course often represents the worth of the instructor's time. Not always, but sometimes. I tried to schedule a class with a well known instructor, and he was booked for at least an entire YEAR. That says a lot. Without looking at a number of instructors, their cost, qualifications, experience, teaching methodologies, diving philosophies, etc, the prospective student is disadvantaged. When I took my first cave class in 2006, I didn't do any of that, because it didn't occur to me. I wish it did.

While the "standards" might be written, there is enough individual variation within the instructor cadre' within most organizations to allow wild variations. This, IMHO, is unacceptable.

I propose a forum/ mailing list for instructors to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of their students. This would allow an open forum discussion of cave students so instructors could work together to build competent, capable, proficient, cave divers, not just in skill but in academics. Peer reviewing of instructors is, from what I've seen, rather uncommon.

If it wasn't, the person I made that dive with at Peacock would have been able to perform basic cave skills, such as a frog kick.

That really blows my mind they could not perform a skill that should have been perfected at the cavern level. I can only imagine your face when you saw that.

 

[The Chairman]

I propose a forum/ mailing list for instructors to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of their students.

Incredibly easy to do within the construct of ScubaBoard. If I have 4 or 5 instructors really wanting this, I would do it in a heart beat. We can even keep the mods out if you prefer.

 

[TSandM]

Of course, the instructors one would like to change aren't likely to make use of such a list, unfortunately.

 

[LiteHedded]

That really blows my mind they could not perform a skill that should have been perfected at the cavern level. I can only imagine your face when you saw that.

we did a dive to sixths with him at peacock and he had a co2 headache so bad he didn't dive the rest of the day

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

we did a dive to sixths with him at peacock and he had a co2 headache so bad he didn't dive the rest of the day

wow!!!!!

 

[TSandM]

Now, if you said "we did a dive to 6ths in GINNIE", I wouldn't be surprised at all!

 

[LiteHedded]

and this guy thought he was god's gift to cave diving. obviously not. there can't be two of us

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

and this guy thought he was god's gift to cave diving. obviously not. there can't be two of us

Well, im sorry but I was actually called a cave god several months ago on here, I guess you can be my deciple Still cant believe Pete pulled that persons post

Next club meeting tell me about this guy, im curious now.