How Rigorous Should Training Be?

[LiteHedded]

yea the one that passed intro couldn't do a non silting kick

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

oh hell with it. johnny richards and paul heinerth. everyone is always whispering and hinting about it. there it is.

Interesting ... I met Johnny at Orange Grove ... and I've only been down there three times ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

So... it's not that the training sucks... becoming an instructor sucks.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

My thought has always been that a short, cheap, easily accessible cave class attracts people with low self-goals, low standards, and an inherent complacent attitude. The "good enough" syndrome, as I like to call it.

Minimizing fatalities is a noble goal, but what about minimizing cave damage and close calls? Fatalities make the news, the boards, the gossip, but all the other stuff DOESN'T. And why not? Poor individual skills? Lack of planning ability? Both of those things can (often) be traced back to shoddy instruction.

Oh no that Gooey is coming out in ya now . I do agree wth you on just about everythng you said. I think the NSS and NACD and TDI all have some very fne instructors along wth some not so fine. I think if the student doesnt come out and try to impove then its not all on the instructor. Somebody who is doing this because they love the caves will work their butt off like I did in order to do dives and NOT damage the cave. And from what I have seen lately ths mentality is lacking.

 

[TSandM]

I'm sure that individual temperament has something to do with it -- honestly, the technical challenges of getting through places as clean as possible is one of the things that's really fun for me about cave diving, and I never live up to my own standards. But my instructors also HIGHLY emphasized cave conservation and even consideration for other divers (one of my instructors would get furious with us if we moved our fins too much while floating on the surface, and blew out the bottom below us, because that was being inconsiderate of other divers who might be in the same area.)

Even in the cavern/Intro class I took, which I thought wasn't rigorous enough, we worked very hard on kicks, and on precise buoyancy control while performing various maneuvers. "Death by back kick" was one of our repeated drills.

Everybody thinks their own instructor was fantastic, until they don't; I'm really happy that, the more I see of people diving in caves, the more grateful I am to the people who trained me, even the one I didn't like.

 

[boulderjohn]

Interesting ... I met Johnny at Orange Grove ... and I've only been down there three times ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

He was working with a student at Peacock when I met him.

 

[boulderjohn]

OK, here's generic response to instruction in general.

Let's say I wanted to learn to pidwhiffle. I do some research and find that there are several places where I can learn to pidwhiffle. One place will teach me to pidwhiffle over a two week, relatively difficult period at a cost of $2,500. Another place will teach me to pidwhiffle over a four week, extremely intense period for a cost of $6,000.

I am told that I will be a better pidwhiffler when I am done with the second course.

Well, of course I will, I assume. But the question is this: how much pidwhiffling skill do I really need to do the kind of pidwhiffling I want to do? If the first course will make me good enough to pidwhiffle competently and safely, then how important is it to me to reach the truly elite, expert level of the second course? Might I not decide to complete the first course and then work on becoming a better pidwhiffler as I practice? Won't the $3,500 I save taking the first course buy me a lot of pidwhiffling experience and equipment?

 

[Blackwood]

My thought has always been that a short, cheap, easily accessible cave class attracts people with low self-goals, low standards, and an inherent complacent attitude. The "good enough" syndrome, as I like to call it.

That's one of the main reasons I've (at least for the time being) decided to not pursue cave training. Without a life change (moving), caves would be destination dives for me, and I know that I wouldn't be able to give diving them the attention it deserves. I'd have to run out there, do a short, easily accessible class, and power through it. Then I'd maybe dive caves once every couple of years. No thanks. There's plenty to see out here on the left coast.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's one of the main reasons I've (at least for the time being) decided to not pursue cave training. Without a life change (moving), caves would be destination dives for me, and I know that I wouldn't be able to give diving them the attention it deserves. I'd have to run out there, do a short, easily accessible class, and power through it. Then I'd maybe dive caves once every couple of years. No thanks. There's plenty to see out here on the left coast.

Of course, there's a good possibility that once you got that first dose of scuba crack, you'd find reasons for the life change (moving) that would make your next dose more easy to come by ...

IJS ... it happens ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blackwood]

Of course, there's a good possibility that once you got that first dose of scuba crack, you'd find reasons for the life change (moving) that would make your next dose more easy to come by ...

IJS ... it happens ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Could be, but even most of the people out here with The Bug tend to only go on 1 or maybe 2 cave trips per year. Not sure if that passes my giggle test.

And oh yah, the wife...