How old of regs would you use?

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Bowers

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My question would be " Why are you not using full face with surface communication " to be the a Safe Professional Department ??

We have aga masks with comms on 4 of our sets. (Would like a ffm for each diver, but for now we have to share). Even those are the same 1st stage and octo as the other training sets.
 

SlugMug

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It's not just age, there are several other factors to consider. For example, I dive with Scubapro 2x MK10s & 2x G250s, and I'm pretty certain those are rather old.
  • Age
  • Brand/Model
  • Reliability/Quality
  • Technology
  • Features
Now for a professional environment, it's probably easier if you can put a simple number on something like "20 years" rather than pointing out 5+ factors to consider.

I'm not familiar with Aqualung Glacias. What I will say is old Aqualung & US-Diver regulators certainly go VERY cheap on places like ebay.

In a professional environment, especially with equipment your life depends on it, yeah, they should definitely replace it, based on your description. Regulators should practically never need replacement pieces outside the normal maintenance schedule. Are they skipping the standard service schedule, or are the regs just that bad? Being delayed getting in the water to save someone's life because "oh ****, this 20+ year old cheap regulator needs service again, grab the spare" could be the difference between saving a life and cursing at your gear.
  • Talk to your coworkers. Do any of them feel the same way?
  • Research: Determine what you would replace them with. Ideally, something that shouldn't need replacement for another X-years. Also ideally, not something absurdly expensive. If you come up with a few options, including listing pros and cost of each (lets say how long they're likely to last, etc ... including some which you think are too pricey for them), you might save them some time and headache doing the research themselves, or find they replaced your regs with ****** ones.
  • Come up with a value proposition. This one is easy, if you have any stories like the above, where regulators are every not ready when needed, or someone's reg blew up under water. However, even stories of regulators being in disrepair and needing to be swapped in non-emergencies could be translated to "that would have sucked in an emergency."
  • Professional Standards: Figuring out what other people do in the industry can help (which is what this thread is about). I unfortunately know little of this, but maybe other people can chime in.

(Somewhat off-topic warning)

Another option would be to use personal equipment, and consider that just another "cost" (as in "cost benefit analysis", not always financial cost) of your employment. I do this quite a lot in my profession as a software-engineer, often buying certain pieces of equipment because I get tired of arguing with my employer that I need a 50-inch 4k monitor, when I can just get one for about $400 on black Friday. That may seem silly, and certainly my coworkers laugh at first when I show up to a new job with a giant monitor (or two), but when I have to have 4+ projects open, plus a bunch of other stuff ... my coworkers start to see why it's not a joke & my productivity long term makes me more competitive in the job market and more than pays for that kind of equipment.

There are limits, for example, I'd never buy a laptop for work, those are really expensive and "take it with me when I leave" factor is ruined. Same with a lot of software, since I might only need it for that employer, or there are annual licensing costs.

The additional servicing costs of personal equipment are where I'd probably put regulators in this category, of not worth it. The possibly saving your own life, is where I might lean more towards considering it.
 

Bigbella

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It's not just age, there are several other factors to consider. For example, I dive with Scubapro 2x MK10s & 2x G250s, and I'm pretty certain those are rather old.
  • Age
  • Brand/Model
  • Reliability/Quality
  • Technology
  • Features
Now for a professional environment, it's probably easier if you can put a simple number on something like "20 years" rather than pointing out 5+ factors to consider.

Age is rather immaterial, since the regulator technology that we currently enjoy, can largely be traced back to the 1950s; and, aside from advances in some polymers; consumables (hoses, o-rings, etc) and the advent of the modern dive computer, little has really changed. I was recently helping out a friend, whose interest is in refurbishing vintage scuba equipment; and many would be shocked to realize, just how little things have changed in sixty years, if at all.

My advice, to the original poster, would be to simply go with an established brand; and to purchase the best that you can afford. Decades ago, we had the option of either choosing Scubapro or Poseidon, who were then at the forefront, and had established reputations. We went with the latter, for a number of reasons, at the time; have never had a significant issue or failure, over thousands of dives, in some of the worst conditions; and we have never looked back . . .
 

Pressurehead

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This ^^ and : but what about professional use? You say.
My 2 bubbles.
Professional use , you must have absolute faith and trust in the gear you use.
You question it, for me that is a problem.
 

Bowers

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It's not just age, there are several other factors to consider. For example, I dive with Scubapro 2x MK10s & 2x G250s, and I'm pretty certain those are rather old.
  • Age
  • Brand/Model
  • Reliability/Quality
  • Technology
  • Features
Now for a professional environment, it's probably easier if you can put a simple number on something like "20 years" rather than pointing out 5+ factors to consider.

I'm not familiar with Aqualung Glacias. What I will say is old Aqualung & US-Diver regulators certainly go VERY cheap on places like ebay.

In a professional environment, especially with equipment your life depends on it, yeah, they should definitely replace it, based on your description. Regulators should practically never need replacement pieces outside the normal maintenance schedule. Are they skipping the standard service schedule, or are the regs just that bad? Being delayed getting in the water to save someone's life because "oh ****, this 20+ year old cheap regulator needs service again, grab the spare" could be the difference between saving a life and cursing at your gear.
  • Talk to your coworkers. Do any of them feel the same way?
  • Research: Determine what you would replace them with. Ideally, something that shouldn't need replacement for another X-years. Also ideally, not something absurdly expensive. If you come up with a few options, including listing pros and cost of each (lets say how long they're likely to last, etc ... including some which you think are too pricey for them), you might save them some time and headache doing the research themselves, or find they replaced your regs with ****** ones.
  • Come up with a value proposition. This one is easy, if you have any stories like the above, where regulators are every not ready when needed, or someone's reg blew up under water. However, even stories of regulators being in disrepair and needing to be swapped in non-emergencies could be translated to "that would have sucked in an emergency."
  • Professional Standards: Figuring out what other people do in the industry can help (which is what this thread is about). I unfortunately know little of this, but maybe other people can chime in.

(Somewhat off-topic warning)

Another option would be to use personal equipment, and consider that just another "cost" (as in "cost benefit analysis", not always financial cost) of your employment. I do this quite a lot in my profession as a software-engineer, often buying certain pieces of equipment because I get tired of arguing with my employer that I need a 50-inch 4k monitor, when I can just get one for about $400 on black Friday. That may seem silly, and certainly my coworkers laugh at first when I show up to a new job with a giant monitor (or two), but when I have to have 4+ projects open, plus a bunch of other stuff ... my coworkers start to see why it's not a joke & my productivity long term makes me more competitive in the job market and more than pays for that kind of equipment.

There are limits, for example, I'd never buy a laptop for work, those are really expensive and "take it with me when I leave" factor is ruined. Same with a lot of software, since I might only need it for that employer, or there are annual licensing costs.

The additional servicing costs of personal equipment are where I'd probably put regulators in this category, of not worth it. The possibly saving your own life, is where I might lean more towards considering it.

This is spot on with my thought process. We went on a body recovery that the mother watched us rekit do to a second stage issue during predive checks. We also have frequent problems with training scenarios being put on hold because regulators (to be fair often it’s hoses) that had significant problems. Last week one of our first stages started blasting a stream of bubbles out from under the environmental cap during the first couple minutes of a dive. These add up to old and abused regs in my opinion. And we get them serviced professionally every year.
So personally, i would like to update the regs. I like my hog regs for price and durability, not to mention the every 2 year service recommended instead of yearly.
Get my chief to approve purchasing new instead of continuing to use what we’ve got is the issue. I have a list of pros and cons forming and want to strengthen my argument with some “industry standards” or at least examples of what other teams are doing.
 

mcohen1021

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Bought my reg, a 1990 US Divers SE2 here and still going strong
 

lowwall

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To me it sounds like the real issue is your reliance on external service. For example, nearly all hose problems are avoidable through inspection and regular maintenance on the fittings.

Go with HOG and get a couple of the team members certified to service them. It's a standard class from TDI. The money you save from self-service will cover the cost of the new gear within a few years and your gear reliability will improve immediately.
 

GJC

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I know that many regs can be serviced and used for decades as personal regs, but what about professional use? Our dive team regs are 20 year old aqualung glacia’s. They can still be serviced so we still use them. They have the larger diameter primary reg lp port and seem to have problems needing replacement pieces more than i would expect out of my newer personal regs. Is anyone aware of a standard or just have advise on when it’s time for a professional department to consider new regs? Is there a timeframe in years, or just when they are too busted to reasonably service?
You should probably make a call to the NYC Police Department Dive Team and have a chat with them about equipment replacement standards and policies.

I suspect that your teams equipment is not used often and spends long periods of time in storage between use. I also suspect that your equipment is not used immediately after servicing to ensure that there are no problems. When stuff sits unused, the rubber, plastic and lubricants tend to dry out, get sticky and brittle.

I would not trust any rubber or plastic regulator parts that are more than 5 years old. I do dive some vintage regulators with platic parts, but I would not use or depend on them for use in hazardous environments or for rescue.
 

Bigbella

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Last week one of our first stages started blasting a stream of bubbles out from under the environmental cap during the first couple minutes of a dive. These add up to old and abused regs in my opinion. And we get them serviced professionally every year.
So personally, i would like to update the regs. I like my hog regs for price and durability, not to mention the every 2 year service recommended instead of yearly.
Get my chief to approve purchasing new instead of continuing to use what we’ve got is the issue. I have a list of pros and cons forming and want to strengthen my argument with some “industry standards” or at least examples of what other teams are doing.

I would hazard the guess that it was simply piss-poor maintenance and not the age of the regulators, per se, since the symptom of what you were describing was probably a torn or improperly-installed diaphragm; and should have been noticeable upon pressurization.

Two years between overhauls has become a standard among many manufacturers; but that interim, should soley be based upon its rate of use, and not the calendar . . .

I would not trust any rubber or plastic regulator parts that are more than 5 years old. I do dive some vintage regulators with platic parts, but I would not use or depend on them for use in hazardous environments or for rescue.

At one research company, years back, I was responsible for about sixteen regulators -- the oldest of which, were approaching thirty years; and the youngest, four to five years.

All were well-maintained and overhauled on an annual basis; there were no failures; and all of the rubber "consumables" were replaced when something showed obvious wear; or, during overhauls.

It is just a matter of regular maintenance and nothing more; and I would have been willing to use any of them, at any depth . . .
 

Centrals

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I know that many regs can be serviced and used for decades as personal regs, but what about professional use? Our dive team regs are 20 year old aqualung glacia’s. They can still be serviced so we still use them. They have the larger diameter primary reg lp port and seem to have problems needing replacement pieces more than i would expect out of my newer personal regs.
The standard lp port is 3/8".
Spare part is the deciding factor.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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