How long did you wait before you started Solo Diving?

[SeaYoda]

...
I don't like the phrase "technical diver". If you go back and read my post you'll notice I use the word decompression more than technical. I only used the word technical because it was used in the post I was responding to.

What's a technical diver? I don't know. There are cave divers, decompression divers, and recreational divers. And some divers are a combination or 2, sometimes all 3, but usually not all 3 on the same dive.

What I consider a "technical" mindset involves the preparation for the dive. While most "recreational" divers simply don gear, jump in the water, and monitor their SPG and computer so they know when to come up, "technical" divers put a lot of time into planning their dives, and this often takes longer than the dive itself. "Technical" divers know how long their dive is going to be, how much decompression they will accrue, what they will be doing on the dive. Sure there are "technical" divers that simply jump in the water and decompress for the amount of time their computer tells them to. There are instructors that teach decompression diving that way. But it's NOT safe and should NOT be done that way.

Thanks for your response.

I guess the question of "what is technical diving" is answered by personal interpretation of how much gear change is different enough from recreational, how much pre-dive prep is needed to bump the dive to a higher level, along with what level of gas management qualifies as technical.

I plan my solo dives but it is a lot simpler than planning decompression or cave dives. I dive within NDL so no need to go beyond what the computer says. I do more than just jump in and swim until the computer says come up. I usually have a plan to see certain things or put myself in certain places to have different photo opportunities. I have to think about gas management but not to the point of any extended calculations. Amount of air is often the limiting factor, on good days, nitrogen exposure comes into play. I do have to make special consideration for being alone on dives, altering my behavior and situational awareness even in a familiar OW place (different kinds of considerations than when buddy diving). I have to make different plans and gear choices due to conditions I find at the site (again not the same choices I would make with a buddy). The gear differences are not the same as cave or tech diving but is more than a typical recreational diver. The gear choices do have purpose just as in cave and tech diving. All these things are more than a recreational diver has to do. This may not be as "deep" as what has been considered technical in the past but this is a relatively new area of diving to be accepted.

The fact that I can use the same gear configuration, level of planning, and skills on both a buddy dive and solo dive tends to round things back to just a recreational classification. The difference comes when I am solo diving vs diving with a buddy. When solo, my life depends on the differences. When buddy diving the differences make me a better, self-sufficient recreational diver.

Whether solo is classified as "technical" or not doesn't make it less of a risk than tech or cave, just different. It is most definitely a higher risk than typical recreational diving and needs much consideration before being entered into.

It isn't really taboo.

Until very recent times it was totally taboo and now stirs strong emotion when discussed.

PADI views it as a form of technical diving, in order to differentiate it from the PADI recreational diving program. Basically, they mean it is outside of mainstream recreational diving..and the only other non-military/commercial/scientific form of diving that exists is technical. So they lumped it into that.

My point is that it is different from recreational diving and carries as much risk as some "technical" diving. Just look at the arguments against solo diving and you can see that we all should be dead by now.

However, no technical or cave diving agency defines it as such. Which matters most?

Do tech and cave agencies even condone solo diving in the descriptions of themselves? Is there a course to become an approved solo diver in tech or cave agencies? Solo diving is about as far along in those agencies as it was in recreational diving several years ago.

Since this is a new area it has yet to be defined as to where it fits. Trying to find a previous definition of something that has never been recognized as acceptable is going to be very difficult.

As to your question, neither matters at all.

Also, it is worth considering PADI's definition of technical diving:
PADI defines technical diving as: "diving other than conventional commercial or recreational diving that takes divers beyond recreational diving limits. It is further defined as an activity that includes one or more of the following: diving beyond 40 meters/130 feet, required stage decompression, diving in an overhead environment beyond 130 linear feet from the surface, accelerated stage decompression and/or the use of multiple gas mixtures in a single dive.

PADI made the classification of solo being technical, not me. It would seem very confusing for them to call it technical and then say it can not be because it did not meet one of the following; "diving beyond 40 meters/130 feet, required stage decompression, diving in an overhead environment beyond 130 linear feet from the surface, accelerated stage decompression and/or the use of multiple gas mixtures in a single dive". Cave diving less than 130 linear feet from the surface within NDL would have to be considered "non-technical" (therefore recreational) if those rules were strictly applied.

I disagree. The risks are very different and not comparible.
The equipment is not the same. You realise tech/cave uses more than just a set of doubles right??
You realise that those 'extra' tanks carried by tech divers are not just 'ponies'?

Risks and gear being different do not make them "less", just different.

Does bigger gas make someone better in some way?

Again, this is confusion on the need for redundancy...
Solo Redundancy - Solo divers need an alternative, independant air source. In the event of primary air source failure they will not have a buddy available to share air. They need an independant air source to enable them to effect an immediate ascent to the surface. Redundancy is preferable to CESA. However, CESA is still a valid option for a solo diver.
Tech Redundancy - Tech divers need the ability to isolate a valve or regulator, should it leak, whilst still accessing the gas they have planned and brought to survive that dive. Direct access to the surface is impossible (no CESA) and your buddy may not have sufficient quantity of gas to share for you to reach the surface.

I have been to 95' solo. I depend on my isolated pony as my real survival should something happen to my back gas. I am not going to do a CESA from 95' when I've just exhaled my last breath and the malfunction hits. Just because the bottle is smaller does not make it less important.

It is easy to assume that, because tech divers are capable of safe solo diving, that the two disciplines are comparable. As a consequence, it needs to be remember that solo divers are not trained or equipped to do tech diving. That is the more important side of the comparison.

Tech and cave divers are not capable of safe solo diving when they are certified by current agencies, just the opposite is true. It is just the same as saying recreational divers can solo dive without preparation. At least there is a course to take on the recreational side and PADI recognizes, reluctantly, that it has its place. Recreational solo divers don't want to dive as what you define as technical unless trained in cave or decompression. Technical divers in your definition are no where near qualified to solo either recreational or technical dives. Your comparison is apples to oranges here.
The real question still exists as to where to classify solo recreational diving. It is more than recreational, equal to overhead NDL, and less than your interpretation of technical.

 

[cruiser]

Careful TGC, them be fightin words right there. You might start a riot with solo talk like that. Best to keep quiet about the solo stuff. I guess its kinda like being gay 40 to 60 years ago. Best to stay in the closet. Don't worry, our civil rights movement will happen sometime soon

Yes, LOTS of solo divers are in the closet. I see them when I dive every weekend. I know the ones who openly dive solo, but there's a bunch who don't want anyone to know

 

[SeaYoda]

Hmm I was joking. I am a very sarcastic person. perhaps this doesn't convey well via text. ...

Try using smilies

 

[DevonDiver]

Thanks for your response.

Thanks for yours.... good debate!

I guess the question of "what is technical diving" is answered by personal interpretation of how much gear change is different enough from recreational, how much pre-dive prep is needed to bump the dive to a higher level, along with what level of gas management qualifies as technical.

Gear change? That would make for a very poor categorization.

There is probably more gear change from solo to tech, than there is from recreational to solo....

Recreational (Buddy) - Single tank, with AAS.
Solo Diver - Redundant Air Supply
Tech - Multiple cylinders containing different gas mixes, including hypoxic and hyperoxic (40-100% O2) mixes.

I plan my solo dives but it is a lot simpler than planning decompression or cave dives. I dive within NDL so no need to go beyond what the computer says. I do more than just jump in and swim until the computer says come up.

Shouldn't every diver be doing that?

Recreational (Buddy) - should plan every dive to maximise safety
Solo Diver - must plan every dive to maximise safety
Tech - must plan every aspect of every dive or will die

The gear differences are not the same as cave or tech diving but is more than a typical recreational diver. The gear choices do have purpose just as in cave and tech diving. All these things are more than a recreational diver has to do.

Agreed. Safely conducted solo diving is more complex than basic open water diving. However, it is still a form of recreational diving.

In the same way, cavern diving, wreck diving and ice diving are far more complex than basic open water diving. Those also are still forms of recreational diving.

This may not be as "deep" as what has been considered technical in the past but this is a relatively new area of diving to be accepted.

I think solo diving is on a par with other, sub-specialisations within recreational diving. Nothing more, nothing less.

The arguement that because it is more than open water diving, it must therefore be tech is flawed and inaccurate.

The difference comes when I am solo diving vs diving with a buddy. When solo, my life depends on the differences. When buddy diving the differences make me a better, self-sufficient recreational diver.

The same is true for any diving specialisation, not just tech, cave or solo. Any additional experience, done correctly, should 'feed back' into making you a better all-round diver. Night diving, wreck diving, photography etc etc.... all of these things bring new skills, techniques and procedures that can be used to develop overall diving skill.

Whether solo is classified as "technical" or not doesn't make it less of a risk than tech or cave, just different. It is most definitely a higher risk than typical recreational diving and needs much consideration before being entered into.

Tech and cave diving contain many additional risks that are not present in recreational diving (including solo diving).

Here are 4 examples of risk from cave/tech that are not present in solo/recreational....

1) A simple carelessness when gas switching can lead to instant ox-tox and drowning.

2) A simple miscalculation with gas planning will lead to out-of-gas whilst still in an overhead environment and death.

3) A coordination glitch leading to a mis-placed fin kick...and silt out... leading to lost line..and an inevitable lonely death in a dark cave.

4) Lost deco gas, leading to the tech diver having to blow extended decompression requirement. Climbing the ladder of the dive boat, 4 days sail from a chamber, whilst counting the seconds before the bubbles start to form in his tissues...knowing that it will cripple or kill him.

My point is that it is different from recreational diving and carries as much risk as some "technical" diving.

In this respect, we are defining risk as: the 'tolerance' for error leading to fatality. Correct?

Whilst solo diving has less tolerance for error than open water diving, it is absolutely incorrect to state that this 'error tolerance/lethality' connection is anywhere near that encountered in tech/cave diving.

I risk-assess diving activities by the number of 'steps' that have to occur before an accident happens. i.e. how many screw-ups can a diver make before it kills them.

For tech/cave diving, the answer is often 1. You screw-up...you die.

For open water (buddy) diving, it is usually 3 or more. For example, you run out of air (+1), you have lost your buddy (+2) and you are too deep to CESA (+3). All three of those mistakes need to happen for you to die.

For solo divers, it is mostly 2, providing the correct procedures are used. For example, you run out of air (+1), you have insufficient redundant air to reach surface (+2).

just look at the arguments against solo diving and you can see that we all should be dead by now.

I don't agree with those arguments. I think solo diving is a relatively safe activity, providing the correct procedures are used and the individual concerned has the right mind-set and experience.

Do tech and cave agencies even condone solo diving in the descriptions of themselves? Is there a course to become an approved solo diver in tech or cave agencies? Solo diving is about as far along in those agencies as it was in recreational diving several years ago.

I've not heard of such a course within tech diving. I'm not an expert on cave, so maybe someone else can answer that.

Tech agencies expect divers to be able to conduct/complete dives without support. However, that is different to condoning solo tech dives. I have never seen any official advocation or condemnation for solo tech diving.

Personnally, I enjoy solo tech/wreck diving. As a tech diver, I don't expect a buddy to take personal risk to look after me. If something goes wrong, then I'd prefer that they focused on getting themselves out alive. As a tech instructor, I am quite used to being in situations where I am the one holding complete responsibility for group safety in high-risk situations. Quite often, those students make things harder and/or more unsafe for me (that's why tech instructors get paid more).

Even then, I've learned over a lot of dives, that I have to be very methodical and cautious about extending the risks of the dives I undertake. There have been occasions where I've looked back on dives and realized that I'd gone too far.

Since this is a new area it has yet to be defined as to where it fits....PADI made the classification of solo being technical, not me. It would seem very confusing for them to call it technical and then say it can not be because it did not meet one of the following

Personally, I can see that it fits within recreational diving. It is beyond open water diving, but no more so that Ice, Wreck, Cavern, Semi-Closed Rebreather etc...

PADI will won't place it there, because they would don't want the liability risks of recreational scuba instructors teaching that course. That may change over time. It's hard to believe that once upon a time, most of the dive agencies believed that Nitrox was dangerous...and that basic Nitrox diving was a 'technical' diving activity.

I have been to 95' solo. I depend on my isolated pony as my real survival should something happen to my back gas. I am not going to do a CESA from 95' when I've just exhaled my last breath and the malfunction hits. Just because the bottle is smaller does not make it less important.

I have been to 260' solo. I depended on not making a mistake, as I had no chance of real survival otherwise. Human error would have killed me. The surface was 6 hours away if I lost my deco mix. It was 90 minutes away, even with accelerated deco.

How far away is the surface for a solo diver?? THAT is the difference.

Tech and cave divers are not capable of safe solo diving ...... It is just the same as saying recreational divers can solo dive without preparation.

Yikes.... Did you really just say that???

At least there is a course to take on the recreational side and PADI recognizes, reluctantly, that it has its place. Recreational solo divers don't want to dive as what you define as technical unless trained in cave or decompression. Technical divers in your definition are no where near qualified to solo either recreational or technical dives. Your comparison is apples to oranges here.

Name any skill or procedure taught on the SDI Solo Course, that is not covered within an entry level Tech course?

The real question still exists as to where to classify solo recreational diving. It is more than recreational, equal to overhead NDL, and less than your interpretation of technical.

It seems that you are arguing about technical diving, when you have no experience of it? That would explain things....

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I'm new to Solo Diver forum so excuse me if I'm out of line but my 11 year old son (as of 8/19) is now, my dive buddy. Am I beyond the "rules" by diving with him? Although I have all the confidence in the world in him as a young man, wouldn't I be foolish to expect him at age 11, to make the right decision, at the precisely the right time, in order to save my life? I think he deserves me to be as good as I can be.... for both of us. Therefore, I've chosen to start practicing Solo at depths where I feel comfortable... for me... 50'. 50' is beyond his realm as a JR diver and I see nothing but great things coming from moving myself forward to keep us both safe.

I may stir the pot here. I have trained many kids. I train them to be buddies. That means they troubleshoot and practice handling emergencies. It is surprising that I have seen many kids who are much calmer under pressure and who react with their training better than many adults.
My own kids were 10 and 12 when they certified. My 10 year old daughter was more than capable of navigating, leading, and controlling a dive. We drilled for exactly such emergies as most think they cannot handle. She may have to fight to tow me or her dad though strong waves, but then she would be able to get surface support help. I made them both take the first aid/cpr courses. That is important, also and adults tend to not put the kids through it.
I don't want to ever put a child in a position where they are helpless and cannot affect a rescue. Work with your child, have an instructor work with them if they have not recieved extra work on this area. It will make all safer and them stronger divers.
You can work on solo diving skills, but it won't help if you have a heart attack at depth. They need to be able to bring you up. They can, if you teach them.

Careful TGC, them be fightin words right there. You might start a riot with solo talk like that. Best to keep quiet about the solo stuff. I guess its kinda like being gay 40 to 60 years ago. Best to stay in the closet. Don't worry, our civil rights movement will happen sometime soon

Cute. People react strongly to you because you make strong atatements and we relaly want you around on this board and in the water a long time.

Hmm I was joking. I am a very sarcastic person. perhaps this doesn't convey well via text. You have come to the right place. A lot of knowledgeable people on either side of this debate IMO. I'm not trying to include myself as one of those people, don't get me wrong. Everything I've said is from what i've seen (which admittedly is a small amount), and what i've heard others like me but more advanced than I say. I've put solo diving on hold as much as I can until I get the training and equipment recommended to me. Perhaps others can give you the same.

That is really good to hear. At the very least, take the advanced clourse and Rescue. It will really be a good experience and teach you a lot.

Try using smilies

:kiss2:

 

[Fish-R-Man]

It is interesting to me how the subject of solo diving always generates such a heated debate. The OP originally asked how long was it after you were certified did you start to solo dive. I actually had to think about that one for a while. What constitutes a solo dive? Is it just diving where you plan to be by yourself or is there more to it.

The first time I used scuba gear I was about 10 years old. I "borrowed" my dads tank and reg while he was at work and took it in the pool. This became a regular event until I was found out. He decided I needed some lessons if I wanted to continue. I was under age for the YMCA course by about 4 years, so he taught me how to use the gear. I was limited to the pool or to a certain section of beach as long as I didn't go past "the edge of the reef". This area was a maximum of about 30'. We snorkeled it all the time so I new every rock in the area. Did this pre-certification diving constitute going solo? Or just pre-certification practice? Once I did take a class, I continued to solo dive, mainly because I didn't know many people that dived. 95% of it was beach diving in areas that I new really well. The buddy system was taught, but there didn't seem to be so much controversy over the subject. If you wanted to go diving and didn't have a buddy, you just went diving.

I believe that the biggest advantage that I had (and the reason that I didn't end up having an issue) is that I was fortunate enough to grow up practically living in the water. I we weren't surfing, we were diving. It all depended on how big the swells were. I had a number of OOA situations while diving solo, but this was nothing compared to the OOA situations when you are pinned to the bottom in heavy surf. I was totally comfortable in the water. I still am for that matter. I am not any where near the physical shape as I was then, so this just adds additional limits to what dives I will attempt.

To me solo diving is just like any other sport that has a certain risk factor. I also ski, run boats in white water, and hunt solo. Each one of these sports done solo has additional risks. I know what I am doing in each of these, and I know how to calculate the maximum amount of risk that I am willing to take in order to do them. This comes from a lot of year of experience. Looking back on the learning curve I had when I started diving and knowing what I know now, I was lucky.

master00sniper, you really need to ask yourself if you have the comfort level and mindset that you should have in order to safely solo dive. If you have good water skills from other sports, you may have an advantage over other new OW divers. If your water skills are just now starting with your first OW class, you really can't have the basic skills/knowledge to prevent panic if things go south. Ask anyone of the divers that follow this Forum if they have ever panicked while diving. I believe that most all of the will admit to it in one degree or another. I know I have. Fortunately I felt it coming on and thought my way out of the situation. I just had to stop, relax and remedy the problem. If I didn't have the training/experience at that time, it would have been a bad situation.

Take some time. Find a good buddy that you enjoy diving with. Build that basic level of knowledge so that you can accuratly assess the risks. Some of the most fun that I have doing the sports I enjoy is going with someone that is a little better at it than I am. That way I can keep learning and improving, which is why I am still in the game.

 

[DevonDiver]

What constitutes a solo dive?

That really is worthy of a separate debate

Here's how I would define them:

1) Deliberate Solo Dive. Suitably qualified diver, plans and conducts entire dive alone, utilising specific procedures and equipment to compensate for having no buddy support. Includes a 'solo dive' within a larger group, where no reliance on a pre-determined buddy is planned.

2) Accidental Solo Dive. A scuba diver, of any level or experience, plans to conduct an entire dive (surface to surface) with a buddy, but during the course of the dive is accidentally separated from that buddy and concludes the dive alone.

3) Improvised Solo Dive. A scuba diver, without relevant training or experience, intentionally conducts all or part of a dive alone, without correctly utilising specific procedures and equipment to compensate for having no buddy support.

 

[SeaYoda]

Thanks for yours.... good debate!

Less than a debate - I don't care who wins

Gear change? That would make for a very poor categorization.

There is probably more gear change from solo to tech, than there is from recreational to solo....

Recreational (Buddy) - Single tank, with AAS.
Solo Diver - Redundant Air Supply
Tech - Multiple cylinders containing different gas mixes, including hypoxic and hyperoxic (40-100% O2) mixes.

I was looking at Rob's comments about what makes a technical diver. Just saying gear is something that solo has to change (or at least consider).

Shouldn't every diver be doing that?

Recreational (Buddy) - should plan every dive to maximise safety
Solo Diver - must plan every dive to maximise safety
Tech - must plan every aspect of every dive or will die

Again, looking at Rob's definition. I plan more than just jumping in. I think buddy recreational divers should too. The progression you indicate is that of increased risk vs outcome of failure to deal with things outside the plan. Tech divers are presented with things that are out of their plan just like the rest of the diving community. Their having to deal with the consequence of not handling the situation well is a much more narrow window than the newbie recreational diver. The newbie will have the equal consequence (death) if he fails to deal well with the diversion to his plan. I was making the argument that solo planning is above buddy diving planning and not just jumping in the water.

Agreed. Safely conducted solo diving is far more complex than basic open water diving. However, it is still a form of recreational diving.

In the same way, cavern diving, wreck diving and ice diving are far more complex than basic open water diving. Those also are still forms of recreational diving.

I think solo diving is on a par with other, more specialised, sub-specialisations within recreational diving. Nothing more, nothing less.

The arguement that because it is more than open water diving, it must therefore be tech is flawed and inaccurate.

Personally, I can see that it fits within recreational diving. It is beyond open water diving, but no more so that Ice, Wreck, Cavern, Semi-Closed Rebreather etc...

PADI will won't place it there, because they would don't want the liability risks of recreational scuba instructors teaching that course. That may change over time. It's hard to believe that once upon a time, most of the dive agencies believed that Nitrox was dangerous...and that basic Nitrox diving was a 'technical' diving activity.

Great points to consider, makes a lot of sense for calling solo a sub-specialty. Should there be another designation other than "sub-specialty"? Could most recreational certified divers walk out and do any of the more risky "sub-specialties" right out of class? We expect some type of preparation before we believe they are ready. May be we classify these as recreational incorrectly. I think NDL cave diving might fit here as well. This points out just how much this is semantics in my opinion.

The same is true for any advanced diving specialisation, not just tech, cave or solo. Any additional experience, done correctly, should 'feed back' into making you a better all-round diver. Night diving, wreck diving, photography etc etc.... all of these things bring new skills, techniques and procedures that can be used to develop overall diving skill.

This was counter-point to my own arguments to Rob. Solo looks more like recreational than technical. Again solo is something more than just recreational even if it looks a lot like it.

I was pointing out the same difference between buddy and solo that you were between solo and tech. "Solo Diver - must plan every dive to maximise safety
Tech - must plan every aspect of every dive or will die" The difference is higher risk of death and a need to deal with it by way of gear and thought. My solo gear can look like and be used in buddy diving but when I am solo it is a must or die.

Tech and cave diving contain many additional risks that are not present in recreational diving (including solo diving).

Here are 4 examples of risk from cave/tech that are not present in solo/recreational....

1) A simple carelessness when gas switching can lead to instant ox-tox and drowning.

2) A simple miscalculation with gas planning will lead to out-of-gas whilst still in an overhead environment and death.

3) A coordination glitch leading to a mis-placed fin kick...and silt out... leading to lost line..and an inevitable lonely death in a dark cave.

4) Lost deco gas, leading to the tech diver having to blow extended decompression requirement. Climbing the ladder of the dive boat, 4 days sail from a chamber, whilst counting the seconds before the bubbles start to form in his tissues...knowing that it will cripple or kill him.

In this respect, we are defining risk as: the 'tolerance' for error leading to fatality. Correct?

Whilst solo diving has less tolerance for error than open water diving, it is absolutely incorrect to state that this 'error tolerance/lethality' connection is anywhere near that encountered in tech/cave diving.

I have been to 260' solo. I depended on not making a mistake, as I had no chance of real survival otherwise. Human error would have killed me. The surface was 6 hours away if I lost my deco mix. It was 90 minutes away, even with accelerated deco.

How far away is the surface for a solo diver?? THAT is the difference.

Tech has a tighter window on failure which is different than solo. A different set of failure points. Training makes those risks manageable.

The same consequences happen to a solo diver at 95' that doesn't check his air because he has not got a buddy asking him for an air check. The lethality of the mistakes are the same.

I don't agree with those arguments. I think solo diving is a relatively safe activity, providing the correct procedures are used and the individual concerned has the right mind-set and experience.

I don't agree with them either. I think solo can be as safe as any type of diving. I was making the point that if overhead NDL diving is considered technical, then solo is just as risky and has all the same earmarks. Note that I said "carries as much risk as some "technical" diving".

I've not heard of such a course within tech diving. I'm not an expert on cave, so maybe someone else can answer that.

Tech agencies expect divers to be able to conduct/complete dives without support. However, that is different to condoning solo tech dives. I have never seen any official advocation or condemnation for solo tech diving.

Personnally, I enjoy solo tech/wreck diving. As a tech diver, I don't expect a buddy to take personal risk to look after me. If something goes wrong, then I'd prefer that they focused on getting themselves out alive. As a tech instructor, I am quite used to being in situations where I am the one holding complete responsibility for group safety in high-risk situations. Quite often, those students make things harder and/or more unsafe for me (that's why tech instructors get paid more).

Yikes.... Did you really just say that???

Name any skill or procedure taught on the SDI Solo Course, that is not covered within an entry level Tech course?

It seems that you are arguing about technical diving, when you have no experience of it? That would explain things....

I have not studied the SDI, cave, or Tech courses. I have not heard that any of the agencies that teach tech or cave teach what SDI proposes that will make you prepared to solo. I have only heard people say they dive tech and cave solo the way recreational divers did before solo was given recognition, on their own. Recreational classes do not prepare anyone for solo, do tech and cave courses? Is the SDI course not for non-overhead, "non-technical" diving? Just by taking the SDI course I could not dive caves solo or do decompression diving solo. I've heard of the buddy system for tech and even the team concept for cave. Are the skills to solo in these areas taught and tested by the agencies? I'm going on external observation so I'm open to finding out what makes a person that took a cave or tech course ready to solo in OW or other conditions. I'm not talking basic skills but those that would be like taking the SDI course for OW solo diving.

Even then, I've learned over a lot of dives, that I have to be very methodical and cautious about extending the risks of the dives I undertake. There have been occasions where I've looked back on dives and realized that I'd gone too far.

Me too - but thankfully I was still conservative and no problem arose!!!!!

 

[SeaYoda]

I like both these posts.

It is interesting to me how the subject of solo diving always generates such a heated debate. The OP originally asked how long was it after you were certified did you start to solo dive. I actually had to think about that one for a while. What constitutes a solo dive? Is it just diving where you plan to be by yourself or is there more to it.

The first time I used scuba gear I was about 10 years old. I "borrowed" my dads tank and reg while he was at work and took it in the pool. This became a regular event until I was found out. He decided I needed some lessons if I wanted to continue. I was under age for the YMCA course by about 4 years, so he taught me how to use the gear. I was limited to the pool or to a certain section of beach as long as I didn't go past "the edge of the reef". This area was a maximum of about 30'. We snorkeled it all the time so I new every rock in the area. Did this pre-certification diving constitute going solo? Or just pre-certification practice? Once I did take a class, I continued to solo dive, mainly because I didn't know many people that dived. 95% of it was beach diving in areas that I new really well. The buddy system was taught, but there didn't seem to be so much controversy over the subject. If you wanted to go diving and didn't have a buddy, you just went diving.

I believe that the biggest advantage that I had (and the reason that I didn't end up having an issue) is that I was fortunate enough to grow up practically living in the water. I we weren't surfing, we were diving. It all depended on how big the swells were. I had a number of OOA situations while diving solo, but this was nothing compared to the OOA situations when you are pinned to the bottom in heavy surf. I was totally comfortable in the water. I still am for that matter. I am not any where near the physical shape as I was then, so this just adds additional limits to what dives I will attempt.

To me solo diving is just like any other sport that has a certain risk factor. I also ski, run boats in white water, and hunt solo. Each one of these sports done solo has additional risks. I know what I am doing in each of these, and I know how to calculate the maximum amount of risk that I am willing to take in order to do them. This comes from a lot of year of experience. Looking back on the learning curve I had when I started diving and knowing what I know now, I was lucky.

master00sniper, you really need to ask yourself if you have the comfort level and mindset that you should have in order to safely solo dive. If you have good water skills from other sports, you may have an advantage over other new OW divers. If your water skills are just now starting with your first OW class, you really can't have the basic skills/knowledge to prevent panic if things go south. Ask anyone of the divers that follow this Forum if they have ever panicked while diving. I believe that most all of the will admit to it in one degree or another. I know I have. Fortunately I felt it coming on and thought my way out of the situation. I just had to stop, relax and remedy the problem. If I didn't have the training/experience at that time, it would have been a bad situation.

Take some time. Find a good buddy that you enjoy diving with. Build that basic level of knowledge so that you can accuratly assess the risks. Some of the most fun that I have doing the sports I enjoy is going with someone that is a little better at it than I am. That way I can keep learning and improving, which is why I am still in the game.

That really is worthy of a separate debate

Here's how I would define them:

1) Deliberate Solo Dive. Suitably qualified diver, plans and conducts entire dive alone, utilising specific procedures and equipment to compensate for having no buddy support. Includes a 'solo dive' within a larger group, where no reliance on a pre-determined buddy is planned.

2) Accidental Solo Dive. A scuba diver, of any level or experience, plans to conduct an entire dive (surface to surface) with a buddy, but during the course of the dive is accidentally separated from that buddy and concludes the dive alone.

3) Improvised Solo Dive. A scuba diver, without relevant training or experience, intentionally conducts all or part of a dive alone, without correctly utilising specific procedures and equipment to compensate for having no buddy support.

 

[DevonDiver]

I plan more than just jumping in. I think buddy recreational divers should too. ....

I think we can agree that effective pre-diving planning is the mark of a good DIVER. That sentiment does not differentiate the type of diving that they may do

Great points to consider, makes a lot of sense for calling solo a sub-specialty. Should there be another designation other than "sub-specialty"? Could most recreational certified divers walk out and do any of the more risky "sub-specialties" right out of class?

PADI would call it a 'speciality course' if they were ever to allow it. Like all scuba courses beyond entry-level, such a course would require appropriate pre-requisite skills and experience for entry.

SDI ask for 100 dives and 'advanced diver' rating. If PADI were to ever run the course, I would hope the prerequisites were 'rescue diver + 100'.

The PADI recreational wreck, ice and cavern courses all require AOW certification before entry.

The entry-level DSAT tech programme asks for rescue, nitrox and deep certifications with 50 dives. Full tech certification (Tech 50) requires 100 dives.

TDI Extended Range diver demands 100 dives (25 deeper than 30msw).

The same consequences happen to a solo diver at 95' that doesn't check his air because he has not got a buddy asking him for an air check. The lethality of the mistakes are the same.

The ability to ascend directly to the surface always provides a chance of living. With Tech or Cave, there is no direct ascent to the surface.

I'd rather CESA from 95' than blow 2 hours of deco by surfacing from 20'.

I think solo can be as safe as any type of diving.

Solo diving, using effective procedures and equipment, should be as safe as normal recreational diving...because you are effectively replacing your buddy through redundant equipment and self-rescue techniques. Assuming everything else is done correctly, then the only danger that would be more fatal to a solo diver would be rapid onset medical issues that immobilise them underwater.

I was making the point that if overhead NDL diving is considered technical, then solo is just as risky and has all the same earmarks. Note that I said "carries as much risk as some "technical" diving".

I disagree. The ability to 'directly ascend to the surface' is a critical determining factor when describing recreational diving. The fact that a diver can always immediately head for the surface makes things very safe indeed. Coupled with recreational diving depth limits, it makes most problems easily survivable.

I'm going on external observation so I'm open to finding out what makes a person that took a cave or tech course ready to solo in OW or other conditions. I'm not talking basic skills but those that would be like taking the SDI course for OW solo diving.

For fear of completely hijacking the thread...shall we start that as a new discussion?