How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[divingguru]

It all depends on what instructor they had during their class. The difference can be night and day between two divers certified by the same agency as OW divers.

I agree totally with the above statement. I sometimes get AOW or even RD students who can barely clear a mask or hover. I do also think that there are some extra skills that students should be learning early on, deploying a SMB for example.

There is also nothing that can compare to just getting out there and diving, students need to log hours underwater after a course, and maybe they should have to reach a certain number per year to avoid refresher courses, or DM led dives. For example, a OW student needs to complete 6 additional dives within the first 12 months of certification to avoid a mandatory refresher course.

 

[DCBC]

I think everyone is pretty much satisfied with how our students perform. If we weren't, we'd make changes. I know my students and I are far from perfect and I'm always looking for ways to improve my classes, but in general I'm very happy with my classes. I wouldn't be happy in other systems, but I'm happy where I am.

Absolutely Walter, as you should be. I was referring to the response to this question. The majority are not satisfied with today's level of diver education. That does not indicate that I'm not happy with the education I provide to my students.

 

[The Chairman]

That does not indicate that I'm not happy with the education I provide to my students.

Would we find ANY instructor not happy with the education they gave to their students? Obviously the crappiest instructor out there is ol' "Not Me".

Joe Public: "Who certified these crappy divers?"
Instructor's chorus: "Not Me!"
Joe Public: "Then, who certified "Not Me" to teach Scuba?"
Agency Chorus: "NOTUS!"

So now we just need to find the ever mythical "Not Me" working under the auspices of "NOTUS" and beat his butt!!! They are the real problem... NOTUS!

 

[Walter]

No single drop thinks it is responsible for the flood.

 

[Jacky Boy]

Is there any way the student can ensure they have the needed knowledge? I see most of you are instructors, if not all.
As a student am I entirely subject to the luck of the draw, just pray for a good instructor? or is there something I can actively do to improve my own education?

Obveously there is gaining experience, but thats not what this discussion is about.

 

[Web Monkey]

Is there any way the student can ensure they have the needed knowledge? I see most of you are instructors, if not all.
As a student am I entirely subject to the luck of the draw, just pray for a good instructor? or is there something I can actively do to improve my own education?

Obveously there is gaining experience, but thats not what this discussion is about.

Walter's post is an excellent place to start.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/new-divers-those-considering-diving/287780-how-find-excellent-scuba-class.html

Terry

 

[101recon]

As a recent graduate of today's diver education, I'm already starting to tire of reading posts that question whether my training was adequate or if I should be considered safe to dive with.
I think I received excellent training and was personally responsible enough to make sure that I fully understood what I was taught.If there was something I didn't understand or a skill I had trouble with,I got with my instructors and went over it until I had it.There is a paragraph in my logbook that I think should be noted:
"Satisfactory completion of this course entitles the diver to participate in openwater scuba diving activities without direct leadership supervision provided the area being dived approximates the areas in which trained with regards to type,conditions and depth."
To me this means that I am not ready to run right out and attempt a wreck dive or get on the next charter to go meg hunting.No matter how badly I may want to.It also means that I am not ready to back up a buddy in such a situation.I need more experience first.It would seem there are more than a few out there who think differently and are probably the cause for most of this concern.
I've read quite a few posts where someone didn't feel comfortable diving with someone for one reason or another.They were "paired up" with a stranger on a charter for example.Well then it's very simple-Don't dive with them.You are the only person responsible for who you choose to dive with.
The diving community is the same as any other group in society.There are both good and bad divers out there.If you want to dive safely and with a capable buddy,then take the personal responsibility to find one.All of this griping about the notion of training not being what it used to be or standards being lower is a cop out.Quality training is available if you go out and find it. Competent divers are being produced as long as the student has the personal responsibility to learn and properly apply those lessons.
Every subject that has ever been taught has had both good and bad instructors and/or courses. And each class also has students that graduate at both the top and the bottom of the class.It is up to each of us to decide which to dive with.

I would also like to note that though my cert is from NAUI,most of my instructors were also trained by PADI and several other agencies.There were also other divers sitting in on my class with certs from various agencies.We had several discussions about the different agencies and what was being taught.It was clear that these "discussions" were not part of the course but I feel fortunate to have learned from more than one camp.Maybe I was just very lucky with the class I got,but at the end of the day the common message was the same:
Dive SAFE....this means within your own limits and those of your buddy.
Dive FUN....this means being able to enjoy the dive because you KNOW that you,your gear,and your buddy are ready.
Dive OFTEN....this means......Well,I think that is why we're all here.


A relevant thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/306706-personal-responsibility.html

 

[Web Monkey]

As a recent graduate of today's diver education, I'm already starting to tire of reading posts that question whether my training was adequate or if I should be considered safe to dive with.
I think I received excellent training and was personally responsible enough to make sure that I fully understood what I was taught.If there was something I didn't understand or a skill I had trouble with,I got with my instructors and went over it until I had it.

It's great that you're happy, but unfortunately you have no frame of reference. It's like the old Henny Youngman joke:

Straight-man: "How's your wife?"
Comedian: "Compared to what?"

You may have had suberb training, average training or terrible training, but you really have no way to know since you currently have nothing to compare it to.

Unfortunately, holes in training don't usually show up until you need a skill that either wasn't taught or wasn't taught well enough.

Terry

 

[101recon]

It's great that you're happy, but unfortunately you have no frame of reference. It's like the old Henny Youngman joke:

Straight-man: "How's your wife?"
Comedian: "Compared to what?"

You may have had suberb training, average training or terrible training, but you really have no way to know since you currently have nothing to compare it to.

Unfortunately, holes in training don't usually show up until you need a skill that either wasn't taught or wasn't taught well enough.

Terry

I see your point and it is well taken.However,I am also reminded of an old joke.I'm sure most have also heard the one about the oldster who "walked 20 miles to and from school,in the snow,bare foot,and uphill both ways" claiming that the kids now have it easy.

Yes, I'm new to diving and would never pretend to have nearly the experience that is represented on this board.But I have seen a good number of divers since beginning scuba.It didn't take me long to see that some were better than others.You start seeing that in the first day of class.It doesn't take a 4 yr degree in diving for some to realize that the guy strapping his tank in backwards might not be the best of dive buddies.Even with my limited experience I can see the difference between divers who are prepared well,those just gettin wet but know what they're doing,and the ones NOT to dive with.

Holes in training will pop up no matter how the training is conducted.No one can plan for everything.There have been many suggestions as to additional requirements for certifications and most of them would certainly produce safer and more proficient divers.There are also those who addressed concerns that this would also produce far fewer divers and hurt the sport as a whole.I don't think any of us can predict how this will turn out.

Regardless of the differences in training,all credible scuba agencies stress safety.The nature of scuba itself demands it from those who wish to dive,and dive again!Personally,I could care less what certs a person has or who they got them from.They are either safe or not.Period.If I choose to dive with them,I made the decision.How can I blame the agency or curriculum for the buddy I agree to dive with?

No matter how you and those you dive with were taught,if you make a descent...you chose to do it.You have no right to then complain about or criticize the competence of your choices.There is no "scuba police" and you can't blame the certifying agencies.This is a non-regulated activity in which you must decide for yourself.

 

[TMHeimer]

A tadd off topic maybe but we all know that if you are on a charter without a buddy (wife doesn't dive, etc.) you usually have no choice who to buddy with--usually the other "single" diver, etc. You don't know him/her. You MAY notice equipment problems so you don't want to buddy with him. What do you do, ask for your $100 or more back?