How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[Web Monkey]

When we speak of a 3-day, 4-day or 5-day class, we are talking about all training for Open Water completed, including the check-out dives. If you do not think any teaching happens on the two days of check-out dives that is your prerogative, but I think the rest of us all consider the check-out dives to be part of the complete class.

OW dives are for the students to demonstrate skills, not learn them.

Terry

 

[DCBC]

So we'd have OWI something like what OW is now. OWII something like the current OW+AOW+a bit of rescue and the bar set higher w.r.t. dive planning and navigation skills. R..

Yes, just like it use to be. A "Resort Course" and an "OW Course." Perhaps this is another example of how "progress" really wasn't progress after all. It just was a way to make more money at the expense of the students.

 

[JeffG]

Jeff, all our conversation proves is that you refuse to speak in the same terms as every one else in this thread. The rest of us would like to discuss the entire course resulting in a certified diver; starting as a non-diver and ending as a card carrying Open Water Diver. When we speak of a 3-day, 4-day or 5-day class, we are talking about all training for Open Water completed, including the check-out dives. If you do not think any teaching happens on the two days of check-out dives that is your prerogative, but I think the rest of us all consider the check-out dives to be part of the complete class.

Yes...redefine on the fly. Handy.

This thread is not the first thread you have badmouthed PADI with your 2-day class nonsense; it just happens to be the last straw for me as far as allowing you to propagate your misinformation.

Its not misinformation. I just think it must hitting close to home for you.

The link you provided as proof of the dreaded 2-day PADI class is actually a more intensive training than many advertised class room/pool training courses run by instructors with various agencies other than PADI.

I like that store. Thats where I send people to get certified if they ask. My brother, sig other and I got our certification from that store. I know many of the instructors and DMs. (Some of which do the weekend classes).

What I take offense to is people talking out their bung hole with regards to dive training here on SB.

What I find amusing are the people that keep trying to defend the undefendable.

I will beat them like a dead horse until at least everyone else sees the light.

oooooo...you're a stud.

But thanks for the insight, I can now throw you into the pile of ego driven true dive god instructors. LOL

 

[JeffG]

OW dives are for the students to demonstrate skills, not learn them.

Terry

I have been told by a few PADI instructors that when they are doing referrals that they expect that they shouldn't have to do any teaching.

Perhaps he needs to use those extra days because he was unable to teach it during the actual class/pool time.

 

[Steve50]

OW dives are for the students to demonstrate skills, not learn them.

Terry

I have been told by a few PADI instructors that when they are doing referrals that they expect that they shouldn't have to do any teaching.

Perhaps he needs to use those extra days because he was unable to teach it during the actual class/pool time.

The instructor who does no teaching (and I'm not talking about demonstrating skills) at OW, is an idiot....

 

[DCBC]

The two/four day diving course is interesting, perhaps a different thread may be more appropriate? I'd really appreciate hearing more about what people think regarding how training can be improved.

Some comments have suggested an increase in the number of dives, an increase in the number of pool hours, increased time to absorb diving theory. Others have suggested that it is not the length of the program that's a problem, but how the training time is distributed.

Although some Super Instructors feel comfortable in shortening courses, others believe that this does nothing to increase the comfort level of the student. Some feel that a more distinct separation between "resort" type courses and "regular OW" type courses would be useful.

What do people think of separating the "Resort" type programs from the OW, increasing the content by including the material covered by the AOW and developing an AOW that encompasses several of the "specialties?"

This would make it clear that all "Resort type courses" require supervision of a DM or Instructor and would increase the skill-sets of the OW diver, so they could be expected to dive unsupervised with a buddy. Some have advocated increasing the training to this group in areas of dive planning, air consumption and rescue skills.

I'm sorry to be using course names that may be confusing to those who have be certified by various agencies that interpret them differently. The bottom line is to separate those who need supervision from those that don't and increase the training time that's appropriate to insure good buddy contact and safety without supervision. Comments?

 

[Web Monkey]

The instructor who does no teaching (and I'm not talking about demonstrating skills) at OW, is an idiot....

What kind of teaching would that be?

Terry

 

[*dave*]

What kind of teaching would that be?

Terry

For me, it's more an opportunity to illustrate what has already been taught. However, there are many opportunities for teaching. It might relate to staging gear at the site, keeping their gear organized, reading the site, managing the environment, timing in gearing up.... Lots of teachable moments during debrief, too.

I can't demonstrate skills, only evaluate them during checkouts. That doesn't mean I can't teach.

 

[JeffG]

However, there are many opportunities for teaching. It might relate to staging gear at the site, keeping their gear organized, reading the site, managing the environment, timing in gearing up.... Lots of teachable moments during debrief, too.

I can't demonstrate skills, only evaluate them during checkouts. That doesn't mean I can't teach.

and these are requirements to be certified?

 

[ScubaDocER]

Acutally, I don't think the problems with AOW are symptomatic of something wrong with AOW. It's symptomatic of something wrong with OW, namely that the OW course is squarely positioned to getting divers in resort settings into the water, diving (and paying) as fast as humanly possible.

Really, what needs to happen is that the current OW course needs to be split into two courses. A resort course along the lines of what we now have. We could give it a new name like "resort diver" and an open water course for people who want to learn how to dive independently.

You don't *need* to teach good navigation or deep diving or night diving to someone who just wants to swim along behind a DM and bounce over the bottom in clear warm water looking at the pretty fishes. But you DO need to teach these things to people who want to plan and execute their own dives.

I think it's clear that the OW course falls short of providing beginners who want to dive independently of all the skills they need. Some of that gets delayed to our current AOW format. I think if we just were to admit that resort divers and "independednt OW divers" need different skills and different intensities of training that a lot of things would fall right into place.

R..

That is an outstanding idea. One that I hope people will consider. It does address the need for a market for both types of divers. This still does not address the problem people have with the current AOW course, unless you recombine it with the OW course. That would resolve my problem with the current format.

Creating the "Resort Diver Course" will have its issue, but I agree Diver0001, it is a great place to start.