This thread is a great example of the value of SB. The OP asked a good question, and received A LOT of valuable feedback in a relatively short time – 70 posts in 30 hours! I think the volume of response offers ample evidence of the interest of SB users in the specific topic.
I personally use a long (7’) primary hose and bungeed necklace-positioned alternate, for recreational diving. My wife uses the same configuration. It works well for us, the 7’ hose is not in any way cumbersome or difficult to manage, and we regularly practice sharing air, as both donor and recipient. And, because my wife uses much less gas than I do, I not infrequently will breath from her long hose for a few minutes during a dive, so that we end up with similar amounts of gas at the time we begin our final ascent.
Having a 7’ hose allows us to swim comfortably together, and still see interesting reef critters, etc. What others divers in this thread choose to use is up to them. So, my subsequent point will not be to agree or disagree with regard to hose lengths in particular, only to share my perspective and experience.
As a PADI instructor, I have until the past several years faced a slight dilemma. I personally believe (firmly) in ‘primary donate’. However, I was originally taught as a student diver years ago, and initially taught others years ago, that in an OOA situation, the donor should go into the ‘hold-up’ position (hands / arms stretched up above the head and out of the way) and allow the OOA diver to secure their secondary / alternate second stage, which was placed in a presumably accessible position somewhere in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower edges of the ribcage (an area I refer to as the Bermuda Triangle). IOW, I was teaching passive secondary donation, when in my personal recreational diving I was already using / practicing active primary donation.
Fortunately, with the ~2012 revision of the OW training program, PADI began to emphasize ‘active’ donation of a second stage. And, as boulderjohn pointed out, PADI did not take a specific position on whether that should be the primary or the secondary / alternate. That ‘neutrality’ is a benefit to many instructors. I can teach active donation of the primary, which (from my perspective) is unquestionably the best approach, and which meets the stipulation of positioning in the ‘triangle’ – it is in my mouth, at the top of the triangle. The challenge for me is that, with common (I hesitate to use the term ‘standard’) hose lengths found on shop regulators used for training and rental, I might be donating a primary on a 30” or 32” (possibly a 36”) hose. While doable, the positioning is just a bit awkward, and puts some torque on the primary hose when the donor and recipient are facing each other, which makes it harder for the out of air diver to keep the second stage in their mouth. So, I teach that – with the common hose length configuration - the student should use the second stage (on the 40” hose) as their primary, and put what was the primary – the second stage on the shorter hose - on a bungee necklace, positioned for ready use should they need to donate their primary to an OOA diver (I even loan the bungee necklace to students during OW training). If that (formerly alternate) second stage happens to have a yellow casing / purge cover, and / or is on a yellow 40” hose, all the better! Either / both makes it easier for an OOA diver to see. This configuration is not altogether perfect – running a 40” hose over the shoulder allows it to bow out a bit, and I find it easier to run it under the (right) arm. However, in that case, I also find that use of a 70 degree adapter between the hose and the second stage, allows for a more comfortable position of the second stage. I also confess that I did not come up with the idea of using the 40" hose as the primary - I adopted the idea from what several university-based OW programs are successfully doing.
A nagging personal concern is that this approach is not necessarily consistent with what other instructors in my current shop are doing, and I was raised in a shop that really emphasized consistency of teaching methodology across the instructor corps. But, in my current environment, there has not been particular emphasis on, or particular interest in, consistency among instructors in teaching methods, so it doesn’t pose a real problem. I do what I believe to be best for the student diver.
What I tell divers approaching the purchase of their first regulator set: a) purchase whatever regulator they prefer (I have definite suggestions but the brand / model is really up to them, after all it is their money); b) purchase two identical, or at least functionally equivalent, second stages – i.e. do not opt for a cheap, lower performing, needlessly detuned ‘octo’ as their alternate, simply because it is less expensive and they ‘probably won’t ever need it anyway’; c) purchase a 30” hose for their alternate second stage, and a 40”, or a 60” or a 72” hose for their primary. A 40” works. As mentioned, I personally prefer a 72” even for recreational diving, and do not find it in any way to be a bother, or somehow unnecessary. And, some people find that a 60” hose is the perfect compromise between the two. But, active primary donation will work with any of those lengths, and what is most important is the procedure, not the hose length.
I don’t know that it is essential to begin gear acquisition by using the same configuration in which you were trained. If that makes a diver feel more comfortable, fine. But, I do think it is essential for divers to immediately become familiar with, and facile in the use of, whatever configuration they choose to buy. And, that means practicing, and practicing, and practicing the skills learned in Open Water AFTER they become certified. A reasonably competent diver can learn a new configuration, and rather easily for the most part. But, whether new or old, any configuration not practiced can quickly become a ‘cluster’ in an emergency.
I personally use a long (7’) primary hose and bungeed necklace-positioned alternate, for recreational diving. My wife uses the same configuration. It works well for us, the 7’ hose is not in any way cumbersome or difficult to manage, and we regularly practice sharing air, as both donor and recipient. And, because my wife uses much less gas than I do, I not infrequently will breath from her long hose for a few minutes during a dive, so that we end up with similar amounts of gas at the time we begin our final ascent.
Having a 7’ hose allows us to swim comfortably together, and still see interesting reef critters, etc. What others divers in this thread choose to use is up to them. So, my subsequent point will not be to agree or disagree with regard to hose lengths in particular, only to share my perspective and experience.As a PADI instructor, I have until the past several years faced a slight dilemma. I personally believe (firmly) in ‘primary donate’. However, I was originally taught as a student diver years ago, and initially taught others years ago, that in an OOA situation, the donor should go into the ‘hold-up’ position (hands / arms stretched up above the head and out of the way) and allow the OOA diver to secure their secondary / alternate second stage, which was placed in a presumably accessible position somewhere in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower edges of the ribcage (an area I refer to as the Bermuda Triangle). IOW, I was teaching passive secondary donation, when in my personal recreational diving I was already using / practicing active primary donation.
Fortunately, with the ~2012 revision of the OW training program, PADI began to emphasize ‘active’ donation of a second stage. And, as boulderjohn pointed out, PADI did not take a specific position on whether that should be the primary or the secondary / alternate. That ‘neutrality’ is a benefit to many instructors. I can teach active donation of the primary, which (from my perspective) is unquestionably the best approach, and which meets the stipulation of positioning in the ‘triangle’ – it is in my mouth, at the top of the triangle. The challenge for me is that, with common (I hesitate to use the term ‘standard’) hose lengths found on shop regulators used for training and rental, I might be donating a primary on a 30” or 32” (possibly a 36”) hose. While doable, the positioning is just a bit awkward, and puts some torque on the primary hose when the donor and recipient are facing each other, which makes it harder for the out of air diver to keep the second stage in their mouth. So, I teach that – with the common hose length configuration - the student should use the second stage (on the 40” hose) as their primary, and put what was the primary – the second stage on the shorter hose - on a bungee necklace, positioned for ready use should they need to donate their primary to an OOA diver (I even loan the bungee necklace to students during OW training). If that (formerly alternate) second stage happens to have a yellow casing / purge cover, and / or is on a yellow 40” hose, all the better! Either / both makes it easier for an OOA diver to see. This configuration is not altogether perfect – running a 40” hose over the shoulder allows it to bow out a bit, and I find it easier to run it under the (right) arm. However, in that case, I also find that use of a 70 degree adapter between the hose and the second stage, allows for a more comfortable position of the second stage. I also confess that I did not come up with the idea of using the 40" hose as the primary - I adopted the idea from what several university-based OW programs are successfully doing.
A nagging personal concern is that this approach is not necessarily consistent with what other instructors in my current shop are doing, and I was raised in a shop that really emphasized consistency of teaching methodology across the instructor corps. But, in my current environment, there has not been particular emphasis on, or particular interest in, consistency among instructors in teaching methods, so it doesn’t pose a real problem. I do what I believe to be best for the student diver.
What I tell divers approaching the purchase of their first regulator set: a) purchase whatever regulator they prefer (I have definite suggestions but the brand / model is really up to them, after all it is their money); b) purchase two identical, or at least functionally equivalent, second stages – i.e. do not opt for a cheap, lower performing, needlessly detuned ‘octo’ as their alternate, simply because it is less expensive and they ‘probably won’t ever need it anyway’; c) purchase a 30” hose for their alternate second stage, and a 40”, or a 60” or a 72” hose for their primary. A 40” works. As mentioned, I personally prefer a 72” even for recreational diving, and do not find it in any way to be a bother, or somehow unnecessary. And, some people find that a 60” hose is the perfect compromise between the two. But, active primary donation will work with any of those lengths, and what is most important is the procedure, not the hose length.
I don’t know that it is essential to begin gear acquisition by using the same configuration in which you were trained. If that makes a diver feel more comfortable, fine. But, I do think it is essential for divers to immediately become familiar with, and facile in the use of, whatever configuration they choose to buy. And, that means practicing, and practicing, and practicing the skills learned in Open Water AFTER they become certified. A reasonably competent diver can learn a new configuration, and rather easily for the most part. But, whether new or old, any configuration not practiced can quickly become a ‘cluster’ in an emergency.
Last edited:
