Hogarthian VS(?) DIR...

[Diesel298]

Be careful, I got a thread removed for saying stuff like this (not that I don't agree with you).

Signed up for my DIR class BTW. March 9th, 2006, (I like mine cherry).

yeah i suspect ill get flamed or something.
the thing is some of the questions people ask are legit, and just want a better understanding....and they get flamed, and called troll

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

DIR, IMHO, reeks of dogma. That doesn't mean DIR doesn't have positive aspects, but it appears to be lacking flexibility, hence I tend to suspect it has reduced the system to a common denominator and avoided the critical thinking aspect (the why?, what about the alternatives, ...).

I would disagree with this comment.

DIR divers are nothing if not critical thinkers ... in fact, what differentiates the GUE class from other classes I've taken is the amount of time they spend dwelling on "why" ... I was rather impressed with the fact that no matter what aspect of the system I asked about they had a logical, rational reason for it's being included.

FWIW - although I have taken, and will continue to take, GUE classes ... I in no way consider myself a DIR diver. Like yourself, I prefer to look at alternatives and choose those that work best for me. In fact, I am currently taking an IANTD class specifically because I want to see what other alternatives are out there ... and to develop other sets of tools that I can use to build on my own personal approach to diving.

However, one should not mistake an adherence to standards to mean a lack of critical thinking ... my experience is that the typical DIR diver (which does not include most recent DIR-F graduates, BTW) has spent a great deal of time thinking through what they are doing, and why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mdb]

I would disagree with this comment.

DIR divers are nothing if not critical thinkers ... in fact, what differentiates the GUE class from other classes I've taken is the amount of time they spend dwelling on "why" ... I was rather impressed with the fact that no matter what aspect of the system I asked about they had a logical, rational reason for it's being included.

FWIW - although I have taken, and will continue to take, GUE classes ... I in no way consider myself a DIR diver. Like yourself, I prefer to look at alternatives and choose those that work best for me. In fact, I am currently taking an IANTD class specifically because I want to see what other alternatives are out there ... and to develop other sets of tools that I can use to build on my own personal approach to diving.

However, one should not mistake an adherence to standards to mean a lack of critical thinking ... my experience is that the typical DIR diver (which does not include most recent DIR-F graduates, BTW) has spent a great deal of time thinking through what they are doing, and why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Very well put. In the early 70's I was fortunate enough to take a class from Lou Fead
"easy diver" Lou stressed self reliance and minimal gear, task oriented. I have taken
rescue diver, night diver, deep diver, etc, none more relevant than Lou's good class.
DIR is not the final solution. They are just doing it in a way that seems to work for them. Doing it right means you are self reliant, no team, no buddy, just you and the open water. You need to be configured correctly, in the proper mind set, with sufficent experience.

 

[Diesel298]

I was rather impressed with the fact that no matter what aspect of the system I asked about they had a logical, rational reason for it's being included.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Everytime i see some post a question about "WHY" on this forum. they get flamed, and are considered a troll....

one thing im curious about is whats DIR got aganst the various fin designs?
ive seen that question posted a few times with no real answer given......

 

[lamont]

yeah i suspect ill get flamed or something.
the thing is some of the questions people ask are legit, and just want a better understanding....and they get flamed, and called troll

Then go ahead and ask a legit question.

 

[fishb0y]

Then go ahead and ask a legit question.

I think Diesel did, look at the next sentence.

 

[lamont]

one thing im curious about is whats DIR got aganst the various fin designs?

Its very hard to do a back-kick or helicopter kick, and difficult to do a frog kick in split fins. Big stiff standard fins like jets or turtles make those kinds of kicks much easier. Split fins are better for flutter kicks -- flutter kicks can disturb sediment 10+ feet below a diver though. Flutter kicking is definitely bad in a cave and its really annoying in OW dive sites.

This has been answered many, many, many times before -- please use the search function before tossing accusations.

 

[JeffG]

one thing im curious about is whats DIR got aganst the various fin designs?
ive seen that question posted a few times with no real answer given......

The fins must allow the diver to do the following kicks

Frog
Mod Frog
Mod Flutter
Backwards
Helicopter

 

[Dan Gibson]

Others might subscribe to the theory that consistency provides flexibility.

That doesn't mean DIR doesn't have positive aspects, but it appears to be lacking flexibility.

 

[radinator]

Everytime i see some post a question about "WHY" on this forum. they get flamed, and are considered a troll....

one thing im curious about is whats DIR got aganst the various fin designs?
ive seen that question posted a few times with no real answer given......

I've seen it asked and answered numerous times. It's easy to find with the search function. I really didn't want to switch to my Turtle fins, because I liked my Quattros, but after a lot of research (and seeing the answer many times) I tried out some Jets and found that was was said was true.

A lot of times I've seen, when someone says that they can't get an adequate answer to a particular question, it turns out that they just didn't like the answer they were given so they dismissed it. They then say "Nobody will answer this simple question!"

Here is the answer to your question.

The various fin designs do not behave well with various kicking styles. If all you ever want to do is flutter kick, there is a possible optimum design.

If all you want to do is backward kick, there is another optimum design.

Likewise for frog, modified frog, modified flutter, scissor kick, etc.

Most "various" fin designs may do one kick well, but suck at the others.

Jetfins (and similar paddle fins) are preferred because they do all of the non-silting kicks fairly well. They may not be the best at any one kick, or may not be the best at any kick, but they are second best in each, therefore being the best overall fin.

They are also negative in the water, which lends several advantages to trim control.

This is the answer I found with research when I bought mine, and in my 6-month experience with them it seems to be true.

Need I mention that they are also black?