Hog wrapping a bail out hose under a loop on a rebreather.

[lermontov]

I appreciate your thought process and the questions you are asking, I (along with many of the prominent CCR instructors in Florida and Mexico) have been there before. I used to use the same arguments against the GUE rebreather configuration until I really understood the “why”. When it hit me, it hit me hard, changing the trajectory of my career.

Your example of the screwdriver is an excellent one. However, if you look at it from the perspective of the “why” GUE configures it’s rebreathers the way they do, it may give you a slightly different result.

In your example of the screwdriver, the screw still turns righty-tighty, correct? Meaning, the core of the system is still the same. You might hold the powered drill at a different angle, but it’s function is still essentially the same. Now, imagine if someone said “well, the power drill is a different tool, so screws driven by a powered drill should turn lefty-tighty because it’s easier for me for whatever reason”. Then, when the power drill fails and the screw needs to be tightened quickly to, say maybe, stop a leak or something, old muscle memory for operating the screwdriver will take over. How efficiently do you think the operator will be in handling the “emergency”?

Within the GUE system, certain things like longhose deployment, valve manipulation, unclipping a longhose, etc. are deeply engrained into the muscle memory so they can be recalled efficiently and without thought. The ease of transitioning that core foundation to as many configurations and environments as possible is significantly higher, and far more efficient than changing everything each time. Especially when you expect to move from CCR to OC regularly as GUE divers often do (different tools for different jobs, but core function remains the same).

CCR diving is only dramatically different from OC if you make it that way. If you treat them similarly, it’s AMAZING how much it simplifies your diving and increases your overall enjoyment.

its sounds like a reasonable argument if you assume all divers follow the same path - i tried twins ( about 15 dives) and didn't like them so went to sidemount so using your muscle memory logic I should have my BO mounted on the side

 

[PfcAJ]

Why do you say that?

It’s not a problem providing that the person is well practiced. Who are you to suggest they dive according to current fashion? They’ve probably dived for years in that configuration and haven’t died once in that time.

I can hop in the water with just about anyone who dives a standard config and be a useful buddy without a lot of pre dive discussion. Likewise, they can be of assistance to me.

With the million-and-one ways crew, that’s not nearly as easy. It might not even be possible.

 

[Gone for diving]

Everything from a 2 passenger sports car to to a soccer mom van would be a diesel with a 13 speed manual transmission. "Because that's what you need when you're pulling an 80,000 pound trailer

I'll take a few....
there's quite a range in types of diesel engines that will get the job done....

and all DPF nonsense will be removed to simplify and to conform to HOG standards...

Dumb question,
with bov plumping, Why not set the onboard dil regulator IP pressure lower, like 115 psi, that way when off board dil is plugged in and on, it will get used first and save onboard dil???
Seems like it would solve some problems,

 

[Wibble]

I can hop in the water with just about anyone who dives a standard config and be a useful buddy without a lot of pre dive discussion.

Why do you "need" to jump in with anyone else? Can’t you dive well enough on your own?

Do you actually subscribe to the "look around for a minute then surface if not found" separation protocol?

No buddy, no problem, go diving.

Did a couple of dives recently that were using a lazy shot with trapeze. Seemed really weird to be with other divers during decompression. Missed the zen-like meditation time with just a bouncing reel and some jellyfish for company.

 

[kierentec]

its sounds like a reasonable argument if you assume all divers follow the same path - i tried twins ( about 15 dives) and didn't like them so went to sidemount so using your muscle memory logic I should have my BO mounted on the side

Then we’d have to go back an re-evaluate your decision to go sidemount, which is a discussion for another thread

In all seriousness, though, you’re absolutely correct. But, the longhose would still be coming from the right post and routed in the “hog loop”, while the left post was either a short hose on a necklace or drives the BOV.

I have no major issues with side mounting bailout (or diving sidemount), and still do it when it’s the more appropriate solution. But I always try to keep the configuration as close to “standard”as possible to keep as much muscle memory intact as I can. And when I do, I’m usually grumbling to myself the whole time about how much easier it would be if I just had my gas on my back

 

[Heat Miser]

Then we’d have to go back an re-evaluate your decision to go sidemount, which is a discussion for another thread

In all seriousness, though, you’re absolutely correct. But, the longhose would still be coming from the right post and routed in the “hog loop”, while the left post was either a short hose on a necklace or drives the BOV.

I have no major issues with side mounting bailout (or diving sidemount), and still do it when it’s the more appropriate solution. But I always try to keep the configuration as close to “standard”as possible to keep as much muscle memory intact as I can. And when I do, I’m usually grumbling to myself the whole time about how much easier it would be if I just had my gas on my back

Are you saying that deep bailout, even if side-mounted on a CCR should always be right side? Generally I have my deep bailout on side-mounted on LHS (with a long hose clipped off) and my deco gas bailout side-mounted RHS (with shorter hose). However if I'm diving OC sidemount the longhose would still be coming from the right sidemount tank and routed in the “hog loop”, while the left sidemount tank is on a short hose on a necklace.

 

[kierentec]

Are you saying that deep bailout, even if side-mounted on a CCR should always be right side? Generally I have my deep bailout on side-mounted on LHS (with a long hose clipped off) and my deco gas bailout side-mounted RHS (with shorter hose). However if I'm diving OC sidemount the longhose would still be coming from the right sidemount tank and routed in the “hog loop”, while the left sidemount tank is on a short hose on a necklace.

For a deep/long range dive that would require side mounted bailout, both side mounted cylinders would be bottom gas. If sidemounted bailout isn’t required, bottom gas is on your back and deco/additional bottom gas is carried as normal stages.

 

[PfcAJ]

Why do you "need" to jump in with anyone else? Can’t you dive well enough on your own?

Do you actually subscribe to the "look around for a minute then surface if not found" separation protocol?

No buddy, no problem, go diving.

Did a couple of dives recently that were using a lazy shot with trapeze. Seemed really weird to be with other divers during decompression. Missed the zen-like meditation time with just a bouncing reel and some jellyfish for company.

I don’t solo dive dude. And I don’t get separated from my buddy. If I legit did get separated, sure, I’d surface. Not a big deal.

 

[Wibble]

I don’t solo dive dude. And I don’t get separated from my buddy. If I legit did get separated, sure, I’d surface. Not a big deal.

Good on you

We like our differences; I almost prefer solo diving in the same way as some people prefer solo hill walking and cycling. (Which probably explains why it's taken so long for me to understand that longhose malarkey!)

 

[cathal]

How much was I assuming? And how did you determine that?



Maybe in the GUEish community. In the real world, there is more than 2. From what I can tell, single tank, doubles, and side mount each have a legitimate use where, in at least one specific case, each is a better choice than the others.



A perfect example of the kind of thinking I'm talking about. "There are only 2 ways to do things on OC and now I've made CC (which happens to be fundamentally different) be as close as possible to that."

It's a good thing GUE doesn't design all the automobiles in the world. Everything from a 2 passenger sports car to to a soccer mom van would be a diesel with a 13 speed manual transmission. "Because that's what you need when you're pulling an 80,000 pound trailer full of 2" webbing with blue H's. And because, Consistency. I shouldn't have to develop new muscle memory to go with my new, totally different platform."

If you are flying a rebreather using the reflexes and instincts you developed on OC, well, good luck with that.

There’s a reason why the Accelerator, brake and clutch pedal are pretty much found in the same configuration for every car type because of……….consistency!!!