Here is a good one for breaking the rules

[The Chairman]

How sad...

they thought they knew enough and didn't. I sincerely hope they recover and if the kid continues in scuba that he has learned to find a good instructor.

 

[ckharlan66]

This was not an accident, it was criminal negligence...

Absolutely.

Chad

 

[Michael Schlink]

We all agree that the aunt blew it. Criminal maybe/probably that 's up to the local's. The 11 year old, completely in the clear. When I was 13 I begged my brother to teach me to dive (yes he was an instructor). He said no(reason" I don't want mom mad at me when you drown." True story. If you give an 11 year old a motorcycle and tell him to try to jump it across the Grand Canyon your going to get some takers. Just the way it is. Mike I've only been on the boards a short while but I'm getting to know you well. I must agree that her( aunty idiot) training MAY have been "weak" but it is very possible that she just ignored the part where you don't teach your nephew to dive by himself. I have several friends that I was involved with their training either as a DM or inst. and have found out they did a similar thing ( put son or daughter on scuba in pool) Now you can question my ability as an instructor but I'll defend myself and support my argument in this way. In both cases the offenders told my wife and asked that she not tell me 'cause they didn't want to get yelled at! And when I found out I ripped there #@* a new one. Both of these parents have good diving skills, have dove all over, lot's of dives blah, blah. One is interested in taking a DM course, amazing isn't it. Some people know the rules and just don't think that it applies to them. We couldn't count how many 100's of NEW divers have been trained in the US, did their OW's in a quarry, hopped on a plane to Cozumel and there first dive was an 80ft wall dive in a current. I have trained numerous people that have done similar dives even after I SPECIFICALLY told them, not to do it ,they're not trained to do it, that they need to stay on shallower reefs and on and on. There are adults out there that simply won't do what they have been told, trained and agreed to do or not to do. I have trained a few young adults that I feel more comfortable with obeying the rules than what we are seeing with some adults! The problem may not always be with the inst. or the agency but actually lie in the responsibility or lack there of of the diver. M

 

[ckharlan66]

The 11 year old, completely in the clear. M

Absolutely also. I only pray that he recovers from his Aunt's actions.

Chad

 

[scubasean]

If you give an 11 year old a motorcycle and tell him to try to jump it across the Grand Canyon your going to get some takers. Just the way it is.

This issue is not related to age...I know some 30+ year olds that might take you up on it...

But I know a few 11 year olds that would tell you to take a hike, since they are much smarter than to take you up on the offer.

 

[Snowbear]

but it brings up valid valid topics for discussion. Therefore, despite a complaint - I'm leavin' it...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike I've only been on the boards a short while but I'm getting to know you well. I must agree that her( aunty idiot) training MAY have been "weak" but it is very possible that she just ignored the part where you don't teach your nephew to dive by himself. I have several friends that I was involved with their training either as a DM or inst. and have found out they did a similar thing ( put son or daughter on scuba in pool) Now you can question my ability as an instructor but I'll defend myself and support my argument in this way. In both cases the offenders told my wife and asked that she not tell me 'cause they didn't want to get yelled at! And when I found out I ripped there #@* a new one. Both of these parents have good diving skills, have dove all over, lot's of dives blah, blah. One is interested in taking a DM course, amazing isn't it. Some people know the rules and just don't think that it applies to them. We couldn't count how many 100's of NEW divers have been trained in the US, did their OW's in a quarry, hopped on a plane to Cozumel and there first dive was an 80ft wall dive in a current. I have trained numerous people that have done similar dives even after I SPECIFICALLY told them, not to do it ,they're not trained to do it, that they need to stay on shallower reefs and on and on. There are adults out there that simply won't do what they have been told, trained and agreed to do or not to do. I have trained a few young adults that I feel more comfortable with obeying the rules than what we are seeing with some adults! The problem may not always be with the inst. or the agency but actually lie in the responsibility or lack there of of the diver. M

I agree and all these things happen. Of course it doesn't help things when your student gets to Coz and every one tells them that it's ok every one does it and the DM is leading the pack. They make you (the instructor) look lika paranoid old hen.

In an effort to solve the problem or at least minimize the risk I spend a few minutes quickly showing students how I plan a 100+ (specifically gas management) dive and what equipment I use.
I also show viseos of divers and some video of divers
Also when they're in the water and they don't look like a buddy team is on the same page, you can bet some one will end uf OOA or with some other problem to get them thinking of what it would be like at 130ft.

Some still follow the group and do silly things but I'm getting better at spotting them and just pass on the privilage of teaching them. Yes I still hear some stories from former students that curl my hair but way less often than I used to.

 

[Michael Schlink]

I don't know if this discussion qualifies for a "Hijack" BUT since it relates to training or lack thereof-Why does it seem when there is a problem with a diver it seems to get thrown on the shoulders of the instructor and/or the agency?? I have been teaching quite a while and I'll admit that not all of my students have become good divers. Some of them never made a dive after their OW training. They recd good training, they passed the exam. The same one that 100's have. They performed the skills to my satisfaction and to the standards of the agency. These same exams and skills have created numerous divers that have gone on to additional training and in my opinion are good to very good divers. BUT some of them stop diving, or don't continue to practice their skills or actually degrade in their ability. I can't control that. "you can lead a horse to water---" I will admit there are instructors out there cutting short skills or even skipping them. PADI wants divers to continue their training beyond the initial OW class and I realize alot of more experienced divers and some instructors believe that it's too easy to become "certified" and certainly there are instructors that are doing just that, making it too easy. Unfortunately a few bad apples may be spoiling the the whole bushel. But it's wrong to assume that everytime a diver has a problem that it's a problem with the training, the agency or the inst. It could be that the diver blew it or made a conscience decision to ignore or break the rules that they were well aware of.-M

 

[Mako Mark]

This is a case of reckless endangerment of a minor.



Did some one say "free motorcycle??"

 

[Deal Me In]

i would like someone to explain to me how this has anything to do with an instructor. it has been awhile since i took my OW course but i don't recall my instructor, who i thought was pretty good, ever telling me specifically not to let someone else use my gear in a pool or otherwise.

this is a case of common sense. i've never been told not to let an 11 do a solo dive with no instruction. i just know not to do it. if you want to claim that i had instruction then thank my parents.

this was not an instructor issue. IMO this was criminally irresponsible period. childen have no choice but to rely on adults not to but them fatal circumstances.

period. end of discussion.

thanks for you time.