Here is a good one for breaking the rules

[Gary D.]

This was the last SCUBA related accident we have had in a while.

Aunt is teaching her nephew how to dive. She is snorkling while he's in SCUBA. No suit on but he was wearing 20# + pounds of weight. When will they learn. Gene pool cleansing not completed. They both survived and are doing well.

Near-drowning victims remain hospitalized

Local woman, nephew identified

By BRENT ANDREWS
Staff writer

COEUR d'ALENE -- Two near-drowning victims remained hospitalized Thursday after their dramatic rescue off Tubbs Hill Wednesday afternoon.
The Kootenai County Sheriff's Department identified the victims as Elizabeth M. Kennedy, 54, of Coeur d'Alene, and Alex J. Witenberg, 11, of Edmonds, Wash.
Kennedy was in fair condition at Kootenai Medical Center late Thursday, while Witenberg was in critical condition at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Spokane.
"Preliminary investigation suggests that Kennedy and her nephew Witenberg were scuba diving and snorkeling in shallow water off Tubbs Hill," said KCSD Lt. Dan Soumas in a news release.
"At some point Witenberg had difficulty and became unconscious," he said. "Kennedy attempted to assist Witenberg to the surface when she too became unconscious. Both were pulled from Lake Coeur d'Alene shortly thereafter."
He said the sheriff's department investigation "will continue in order to determine if equipment problems, diver experience or other factors were the primary cause of this accident."
Soumas said in an interview it appeared Witenberg was scuba diving and Kennedy was snorkeling and offering instruction when Witenberg encountered problems.
"After these folks got in trouble, people on the beach that were with them saw that they were in trouble and they started waving to anyone that would watch them," he said.
The activity caught the attention of a Coeur d'Alene Resort cruise boat captain who steered his vessel to the scene. Deckhands pulled Witenberg from the water.
"One of our patrol boats was very close when the call came in," Soumas said. The boat was on scene within minutes, he said.
While Soumas said it's likely Kennedy was teaching Witenberg to scuba dive, "we're still trying to sort out everything that happened," he said.

Brent Andrews can be reached at 664-8176, ext. 2009, or bandrews@cdapress.com


P.O. Box 7000 / 2nd & Lakeside / Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814 / 208-664-8176


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[pt40fathoms]

Seeing as no money grabbing instructor who insists on dubious waivers being signed prior to instruction was involved, and this was not a "trust me" dive as the "student" appeared to be alone under the water and "in full control". This is an example of how it should be done. The fact that it nearly ended in the death of both people is a moot point and not worth mentioning.


(troll to see if Genesis responds as I'm sure he will)

 

[Charlie99]

Seeing as no money grabbing instructor who insists on dubious waivers being signed prior to instruction was involved, and this was not a "trust me" dive as the "student" appeared to be alone under the water and "in full control". This is an example of how it should be done. The fact that it nearly ended in the death of both people is a moot point and not worth mentioning.


(troll to see if Genesis responds as I'm sure he will)

Your post is both a troll, and in bad taste, but I'll bite.

There is no way from the article to know what the 11 year old did or did not know before doing the dive, but my guess is that this was a classic case of a "trust me" dive.

 

[fins wake]

Seeing as no money grabbing instructor who insists on dubious waivers being signed prior to instruction was involved, and this was not a "trust me" dive as the "student" appeared to be alone under the water and "in full control". This is an example of how it should be done. The fact that it nearly ended in the death of both people is a moot point and not worth mentioning.

It's not a troll. My thoughts were identical when the read the first post. If some other :newbie: catches onto this thread, it may well demonstrate why (proper) instruction is such a good idea.

 

[Falcon99]

Umm... Maybe it's just me, but the first thought I had was..

"Isn't 11 a bit young to be diving in this kind of method?"

 

[diverbrian]

At how many new divers think that they know enough to take their children to the bottom of a pool and let them breath off their octopus.

Luckily, of the ones that I know about up here, the shop staff has managed to talk most of them out of it. But, it is still a scary thought.

 

[fins wake]

"Isn't 11 a bit young to be diving in this kind of method?"

At least this one can't be chalked up to diver training organization standards ...

Actually, rereading the first post I noticed that one victim was in a critical condition and the other also hospitalized. I assumed both were okay. My bad. I stand corrected (and owe an apology to Charlie): Yes, it's a bit in bad taste.

However, the point is still that it very clearly shows the immediate and very real and potentially fatal dangers of trying to learn scuba diving without proper instruction.

This is not a question of waivers or a metaphysical "how-many-angels-can-you-fit-on-the-pin-of-a-needle-is-OW-diving-with-an-instructor-a-trust-me-dive-scenario" type of issue. This is, as NetDoc, clearly stated a question of don't learn to dive without an instructor. Doing without an instructor can - and most likely will -severely damage your health.

Yes, I also hope Genesis sees this and that it makes him reconsider his position. Also, I hope and pray the two victims will make a full recovery. My thoughts go out to their families and loved ones. :frown2:

 

[pt40fathoms]

Your post is both a troll, and in bad taste, but I'll bite.

There is no way from the article to know what the 11 year old did or did not know before doing the dive, but my guess is that this was a classic case of a "trust me" dive.

troll...obvious, bad taste...naw, just a troll.

As for this being a "trust me" dive. That's very interesting you should say that, so lets look at what a "trust me" dive has been pointed out as being.

A "trust me" dive has been equated to any dive where one diver relies on another diver to control depth, bottom time, and NDL. This being done in several ways, one being that the "lead" diver is the only one in possession of an instrument that is vital to determine any or all of the factors required to indicate or establish those aforementioned limits. The other is where both divers although in possession of all required instruments, only the "lead" diver is relied upon to control the dive and make all decisions regarding the dive profile.
The third "trust me" dive is not in fact a "trust me" dive but rather an instructor lead dive for the purposes of teaching new divers, and although the student diver is in fact relying on the instructor for guidance, it is with the expressed purpose of making the student an independent and competent diver. Whereas a true “trust me” dive is a condition that exists when a trained diver forgoes being an independent diver, relying on his or her own skills to control the dive, and instead allows another diver to control the dive.

Because the “student” was not being lead by an instructor diver who was under the water with the student, and as a result the student was in full control of the dive. This clearly was not a “trust me” dive.

As to what the student did or did not know is immaterial to this point.

(thanks for biting, I now cast the line out once again and begin to troll anew)

 

[Gary D.]

A little more info about the dive.

Aunt and Nephew go to the lake. SHE is going to dive while he watches. BUT she talks him into trying SCUBA. She puts the gear on him and off the rocks he goes. ZERO instruction just have fun.

He went in and to the 20 some odd foot bottom where he satayed. Had he moved just a few feet he would have gone off the ledge to 40' then 60' then 80' then 110' down to 165'. That area is like a set of stairs with roughly a ledge every 20'.

He came real close to not making it.

Gary D.

 

[glbirch]

Umm... Maybe it's just me, but the first thought I had was..

"Isn't 11 a bit young to be diving in this kind of method?"

My thought is that 11 is too young to be diving, period. Kind of like 7 year old airplane pilots. I don't believe that your average child of that age has the maturity and experience to stay calm in a crisis situation.

Our club instructor discourages parents from putting their kids in scuba at that age.