Help with trim-PADI style hover skill

[antattack]

I'm just a DMC, but I'll reinforce Scotts comments. DM candidates are usually tested to ensure that they can demonstrate the skills, not just master the skills.

My instructor requires that I am able to demonstrate each skill in what feels like s l o w motion. The gear exchange, for example, takes about two minutes. Ditch and recover on the surface takes about three minutes. The 30' swim in CESA takes 20-30 seconds. Hover only takes about a minute total, the hover is 30 seconds in any position. The lotus position has it's benefits, but isn't a requirement. I think it looks cool.

If you can do the skill slowly, you have probably mastered the skill, and you will be able to demonstrate the skill in a way that students could actually learn from seeing you do the skill. So it's worth practicing in a pool till you feel like you can can do the skills and be bored doing them, not challenged. (the trick is getting the pool time

Now if I can just finish my mapping project...

---------- Post Merged at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:59 PM ----------

Oh, one more thing. If you are jonesing on the lotus position in a pool, you can sort of cheat by wearing a shorty wet suit to be more buoyant, and then wearing 4-6# of weight on a weight belt. That way, your torso will be appropriately buoyant and you will have some weight down by your hips. Easy!

 

[cascas]

It sounds like I am about the same height as tracydr & have the same issues with an AL80. I cannot fathom how you can think that what you describe is feasible, let alone maintainable when working with students. Do you have an extra joint in your leg between your knee and ankle?

Maybe i should refrase

keep your upperlegs in line with your torso, bend legs at your knees en kneel that way. Instead of dropping your bum on your calves (which will not work because of the tank anyway)

O
-I0
L_/

O = head
-I0 = arms, torso, tank
L- legs bent at knee
_ =lowerlegs
/= fins

Does that make sense ?

instead of :
O
-I0
/_/

/_/ = upperlegs, lowerlegs, fins

 

[tracydr]

I find the DMC's that do the exchange in small steps are in better control and perform better. Remove one fin, breath, loosen straps, breath, pass fin, breath, don fin, breath, adjust strap, breath. Next side, and repeat. BC is the same way.
Just remember your only limit is your gas supply, take your time, but make sure it is a full cylinder.

This sounds like a great plan.
I think my gas supply in the pool is nearly unlimited as far as this exercise goes. At least, I have more gas than I can stand to stay in the pool, I've yet to come close to using more than half a tank in one pool session, even our longest 4 hour session.
My instructor has a pretty good SAC as well and he will allow me all the time I need.
My 6'4" buddy for the buddy breathing exercises last weekend. Well, let's just say that I was shocked when my tank went dry during a lap around the pool I guess when you're 6'4", have huge lung volume/metabolism and get slightly stressed from something like sharing air, the gas can disappear in a big hurry!

 

[hypertech]

How long were you buddy breathing? Seems like even with a little tank, it should last a long time in the pool.

The trick to the gear exchange is just to stay calm. Remember you can be underwater for some time without needing a breath - I'm sure you used to swim in the pool and dive down to the bottom without scuba no problem. Once you realize its not a big deal and focus on the task in a calm controlled manner, you'll be done before you know it.

 

[SubMariner]

I'm just a DMC, but I'll reinforce Scotts comments. DM candidates are usually tested to ensure that they can demonstrate the skills, not just master the skills.

My instructor requires that I am able to demonstrate each skill in what feels like s l o w motion. The gear exchange, for example, takes about two minutes. Ditch and recover on the surface takes about three minutes. The 30' swim in CESA takes 20-30 seconds. Hover only takes about a minute total, the hover is 30 seconds in any position. The lotus position has it's benefits, but isn't a requirement. I think it looks cool.

If you can do the skill slowly, you have probably mastered the skill, and you will be able to demonstrate the skill in a way that students could actually learn from seeing you do the skill. So it's worth practicing in a pool till you feel like you can can do the skills and be bored doing them, not challenged. (the trick is getting the pool time

Now if I can just finish my mapping project...

Generally, it's a correct attitude that skills comprising the Skill Circuit should be performed to "demonstration quality", which means breaking them down into their individual components and slowly going through each component until the skill if finished. However, the gear exchange is an exercise in problem solving; it is not anything that will be demonstrated to a student.

So, while it is advisable to relax & take the exercise slowly so as to establish a good rhythm with your buddy, when you are swapping out gear no one needs (or wants) to see you break down mask clearing into (1) break the seal on the mask. (2) Let water into the mask. (3) Fill the mask... etc., etc., etc. We just want to see you handle the exercise in a calm, collected manner, no matter what happens while you are doing it.



---------- Post Merged at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:22 PM ----------

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but maybe the response will also help the OP in some way. Is there any reason why you couldn't start in all or part of your buddy's gear? My understanding is that you're supposed to be given a couple of minutes to discuss/strategize with your buddy before the exercise (I could be wrong, I start the course in 2 weeks), so couldn't you start the exercise wearing your buddy's mask, for example, so you only have to switch it once? (my buddy would be mr/ms magoo with my mask) Or is it completely dependent on the instructor evaluating the exercise?

If it were me, I wouldn't have a problem with my student wearing their buddy's prescription mask and then switching to their own during the exercise because I think that would be something of an an extraordinary circumstance. However, I don't think I would allow them to start out in each other's gear.

 

[TSandM]

That's interesting, because that's one of the pieces of advice I got about doing the skill, and that's the way we did it.

I think one of the best things a diver can do is practice breath-hold swimming. I know that, when I started practicing it for my Fundies class, I was petrified of it. By the time I easily passed the longer breath-hold swim in Cave 1 and Cave 2, I had figured out how to be much more efficient in the water, and had learned I could hold my breath FAR longer than I would have believed. Knowing that takes a lot of the stress out of anything that involves periods of no air supply underwater, including the gear exchange skill.

 

[Hawkwood]

....
If it were me, I wouldn't have a problem with my student wearing their buddy's prescription mask and then switching to their own during the exercise because I think that would be something of an an extraordinary circumstance. However, I don't think I would allow them to start out in each other's gear.

When you have one (or both) of the DMCs using a prescription mask, it does become an issue during the equipment exchange. Wearing someone else's prescription can be extremely disconcerting. It is best as you say to allow the DMCs start off wearing each other's masks.

I did my exchange with my son who was doing the DM program with me.

I have a fairly strong prescription, he has no correction. Prior to the exchange we decided that we would swap masks and start out with each other's mask. It was very good thing. He could only take a couple of minutes wearing my mask - he found it quite nauseating and ended up having to keep his eyes closed - I lead him to the spot for the exchange, we got the masks switched and we were good to go for the remainder of the exercise.

Bill

 

[boulderjohn]

When I did the equipment exchange, I was still wearing contact lenses. I did not wear them during the exercise so that I could confidently keep my eyes open during the time when I did not have a mask on. It worked well. If people have prescription lenses and their vision is not really all that bad, you may want to consider using a non-prescription mask to avoid the problem of wearing a prescription that is not yours.

 

[tracydr]

How long were you buddy breathing? Seems like even with a little tank, it should last a long time in the pool.

The trick to the gear exchange is just to stay calm. Remember you can be underwater for some time without needing a breath - I'm sure you used to swim in the pool and dive down to the bottom without scuba no problem. Once you realize its not a big deal and focus on the task in a calm controlled manner, you'll be done before you know it.

Three laps of our smallish pool, using an AL 63. But, we only started with 600-700 psi.

---------- Post Merged at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Success! Passed the equipment exchange today and it went smooth! Other than my instructor's mask not fitting me, which resulted in being close to blind for the lap around the pool ( actually, he insisted on 3 laps around the pool, buddy breathing) . Pretty much made that portion into a swim with no-mask while buddy breathing exercise.
But, hey, I did it, I stayed calm, smooth, took my time.
those hours in the pool by myself doing Zen time and practicing equipment donning/doffing without my regulator made a real difference.
Tomorrow, we do the stamina swims, except the treading water, which we already did. Plus, rescue stuff.
i really want to get past tomorrow and onto the fun stuff like a mapping and practice classes!

---------- Post Merged at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:40 PM ----------

That's interesting, because that's one of the pieces of advice I got about doing the skill, and that's the way we did it.

I think one of the best things a diver can do is practice breath-hold swimming. I know that, when I started practicing it for my Fundies class, I was petrified of it. By the time I easily passed the longer breath-hold swim in Cave 1 and Cave 2, I had figured out how to be much more efficient in the water, and had learned I could hold my breath FAR longer than I would have believed. Knowing that takes a lot of the stress out of anything that involves periods of no air supply underwater, including the gear exchange skill.

Oh, dear! Now you have me worried about Cave before I've even done Fundies! Here, I've been worried about the Fundies breath hold and I don't even have a class scheduled!
my ultimate goal, is to dive caves. I'm not going to let a stupid breath old dive stop me!
BTW, just found a city pool close to the house, Olympic size, great lap swim hours and cheap punch cards!

 

[TSandM]

Look up threads and posts by SparticleBrane. Charles put up a link to a diver doing a long breath-hold swim that was invaluable for me, to figure out how to get it done.