Help with trim-PADI style hover skill

[tracydr]

Thanks so much, Scott. Got the article and really enjoyed it. Plus, your encouragement made me feel better.
Had a productive, 2 hour session by myself in the pool today. I used an steel tank and while it was a little long for me, ( it wasn't one of my short HP 80 which are still getting hydro'd) the fact that it stayed negative was really helpful. I was able to hover in several positions, comfortably, and move on to other, much more important tasks.
I really concentrated on practicing for my upcoming equipment exchange. Last weekend, I could tell, while doing the buddy breathing that I wasn't going to be comfortable doing equipment exchange and asked for a few days extension. I honestly couldn't remember doing buddy breathing, except for one time this summer with my husband for a few minutes in othe pool. So, today, I practiced dropping my regulator, holding my breath and changing out each item of gear, picking up the reg after each item was changed. I must have done the entire equipment exchange at least 10 times! I really didn't want to panic or feel nervous about doing it in a testing situation, so I felt that practicing in smaller parts would help me.
So, I've passed all the 20 regular skills, knowledge exam. Just have the rescue stuff, stamina/waterman ship, mapping, and then the "practice" classes left. Hoping I can pass whatever is on the agenda for the weekend. I think we do all the rescue, stamina and maybe even mapping. I may do the equipment exchange with my instructor tomorrow, if I get brave.
wish me luck!

 

[Hawkwood]

T...So, today, I practiced dropping my regulator, holding my breath...

Great job on getting where you are so far!

I will nit-pic though and let you head everyone else off at the pass with a clarification - I assume you really didn't mean "holding my breath"?

Bill

 

[tracydr]

Great job on getting where you are so far!

I will nit-pic though and let you head everyone else off at the pass with a clarification - I assume you really didn't mean "holding my breath"?

Bill

No, not exactly. I mean exhaling while not having a reg in my mouth. Sorry about that, lol! Feels like I'm holding my breath. Especially after I struggle with the clips/cummerbund of my BC for awhile and don't get to take an inhalation!

 

[cascas]

The AL 80 is longer than my body, which prevents me from doing the required skills at the bottom of the pool for the DM tests because I can't kneel.

If you have to do your demo skills with bottom contact, kneel just bending your lower legs. Surely your AL80 is not longer than your torso plus upper legs. You'll be more upright and be able to react to students quicker because you won't have to come up all the way.

This it how i want a DM to present him or herself to students. But demonstrating while hovering is the preferred method in my opinion.

 

[SubMariner]

No, not exactly. I mean exhaling while not having a reg in my mouth. Sorry about that, lol! Feels like I'm holding my breath. Especially after I struggle with the clips/cummerbund of my BC for awhile and don't get to take an inhalation!

There are several keys to doing this exercise:

1) RELAX. Do it SLOWLY. It's not a race, it's an exercise in problem solving. IF it takes more than one pass back & forth of the reg for you to get out of your bc, so what?

2) Get into a rhythm with your buddy. Are you going to take 3 breathes & pass the reg? More? Less? If you are the donor, remember to hold the reg by the hose, not cover the purge with your hand.

3) When the reg is out of your mouth you don't have to do a HUGE EXHALE/PURGE your lungs. It should be gentle slow exhale... think soft humming or "ah". Kind of like letting water slowly dribble out of your mouth.

4) Start with the most difficult piece of equipment first. Believe it or not, for me it was my mask because without my prescription lenses, I'm Ms. Magoo. So my buddy & I traded masks, then traded BACK so I was wearing my own mask as we progressed through the exchange.

Keep on truckin'!


---------- Post Merged at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:21 PM ----------

The AL 80 is longer than my body, which prevents me from doing the required skills at the bottom of the pool for the DM tests because I can't kneel.

If you have to do your demo skills with bottom contact, kneel just bending your lower legs. Surely your AL80 is not longer than your torso plus upper legs. You'll be more upright and be able to react to students quicker because you won't have to come up all the way.

This it how i want a DM to present him or herself to students. But demonstrating while hovering is the preferred method in my opinion.

It sounds like I am about the same height as tracydr & have the same issues with an AL80. I cannot fathom how you can think that what you describe is feasible, let alone maintainable when working with students. Do you have an extra joint in your leg between your knee and ankle?

If I have to kneel with a student at the bottom, and the skill is one where they may suddenly bolt or make an uncontrolled ascent, I have a firm grasp of a piece of their equipment to keep them from going up. But I prefer my DM to in a position to watch/react to the rest of the students, whether that be hovering or kneeling.

However, if the DM is doing a 1-on-1 demo/practice with the student in preparation for me re-evaluating their mastery of a skill, I would expect them to assume the same position I would be to work with that student.

FWIW,

 

[oreocookie]

4) Start with the most difficult piece of equipment first. Believe it or not, for me it was my mask because without my prescription lenses, I'm Ms. Magoo. So my buddy & I traded masks, then traded BACK so I was wearing my own mask as we progressed through the exchange.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but maybe the response will also help the OP in some way. Is there any reason why you couldn't start in all or part of your buddy's gear? My understanding is that you're supposed to be given a couple of minutes to discuss/strategize with your buddy before the exercise (I could be wrong, I start the course in 2 weeks), so couldn't you start the exercise wearing your buddy's mask, for example, so you only have to switch it once? (my buddy would be mr/ms magoo with my mask) Or is it completely dependent on the instructor evaluating the exercise?

 

[tracydr]

There are several keys to doing this exercise:

1) RELAX. Do it SLOWLY. It's not a race, it's an exercise in problem solving. IF it takes more than one pass back & forth of the reg for you to get out of your bc, so what?

2) Get into a rhythm with your buddy. Are you going to take 3 breathes & pass the reg? More? Less? If you are the donor, remember to hold the reg by the hose, not cover the purge with your hand.

3) When the reg is out of your mouth you don't have to do a HUGE EXHALE/PURGE your lungs. It should be gentle slow exhale... think soft humming or "ah". Kind of like letting water slowly dribble out of your mouth.

4) Start with the most difficult piece of equipment first. Believe it or not, for me it was my mask because without my prescription lenses, I'm Ms. Magoo. So my buddy & I traded masks, then traded BACK so I was wearing my own mask as we progressed through the exchange.

Keep on truckin'!


---------- Post Merged at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:21 PM ----------







It sounds like I am about the same height as tracydr & have the same issues with an AL80. I cannot fathom how you can think that what you describe is feasible, let alone maintainable when working with students. Do you have an extra joint in your leg between your knee and ankle?

If I have to kneel with a student at the bottom, and the skill is one where they may suddenly bolt or make an uncontrolled ascent, I have a firm grasp of a piece of their equipment to keep them from going up. But I prefer my DM to in a position to watch/react to the rest of the students, whether that be hovering or kneeling.

However, if the DM is doing a 1-on-1 demo/practice with the student in preparation for me re-evaluating their mastery of a skill, I would expect them to assume the same position I would be to work with that student.

FWIW,

This is very helpful. I'm going to try the equipment exchange tomorrow. Not sure why I'm getting nervous about this skill?
The BC seems to be the hardest part of the skill for me. Not using weight integrated, just plain, ol weight belts.
I think my solo pool session yesterday was very helpful. Plenty of Zen time, plenty of time to practice each piece of equipment without a regulator in my mouth. I think I'll spend another good while in the pool before my test tomorrow. I now feel thouroughly comfortable with each piece of equipment exchange. The question is, can I do it with a buddy, under evaluation? I do believe I have a bit of test anxiety. How I ever made it through med school and military officer training ( Air Froce OTS and Army OBC) I really don't know. I do know my life was incredibly stressful those days, especially during Air Force OTS.
go slow, breathe, don't blow out too much air too fast, tell my buddy when I need to take a break before the next piece of gear. Got it.
is it easier to exchange both pieces at one time or for one person to doff/don, while the other person is managing the regulator. Ex: I take off a fin, put on a fin, while buddy holds the other fin and breathes,then buddy puts on the fin while I breathe. Or, better to just both go at it at the same time? I noticed that I was able to concentrate on my gear better while the regulator was out of my mouth yesterday so I was thinking that could be part of my plan?
As far as the AL 80, I will hopefully not have to use that again, ever. I pick up my HP 80s tomorrow. Between my AL 63s and HP 80s I should be good. But, I agree. Unless I'm really upright, on my knees with no bending or slouching, at all, it's really tough to be on my knees. I hate that tank! The LP 80 is easier, due to it's negative bouyancy, but still causes an issue. At least I don't feel like I'm being pushed all over the place by it while trying to get adjusted on the bottom.
i read somewhere, written by one of the tech instructors, that a tank should be chosen by how it fits the length of the spine from T1 to bottom of your butt in a seated position, I believe. I wish I could find that information, now. If that's the case, the AL80 and LP 80 are far too long for my spine.
does anybody know what I'm talking about, since I have no idea where I read this?

---------- Post Merged at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:26 PM ----------

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but maybe the response will also help the OP in some way. Is there any reason why you couldn't start in all or part of your buddy's gear? My understanding is that you're supposed to be given a couple of minutes to discuss/strategize with your buddy before the exercise (I could be wrong, I start the course in 2 weeks), so couldn't you start the exercise wearing your buddy's mask, for example, so you only have to switch it once? (my buddy would be mr/ms magoo with my mask) Or is it completely dependent on the instructor evaluating the exercise?

I can ask about this. My biddy will have a much harder time with my stuff than I will in his. He won't be able to close my Cumberbund or snap on the BC. He also won't be able to get his feet into my fins, even though I will use the largest fins I have.
looks like I'll be doing it with my instructor. I have tried out his BC, just to see how it feels. Wobbly and crazy big but doable.

 

[boulderjohn]

If I have to kneel with a student at the bottom, and the skill is one where they may suddenly bolt or make an uncontrolled ascent, I have a firm grasp of a piece of their equipment to keep them from going up. But I prefer my DM to in a position to watch/react to the rest of the students, whether that be hovering or kneeling.

One of the things I like about teaching students the basic skills in a horizontal, slightly buoyant pose is that they can't instantly bolt the way they can spring up from a kneeling position. When you are also horizontally in front of them for the skill, control is easy. I have also never had a student feel the urge to bolt since I have been dong it this way. I am not sure why. I think one reason is the little bit of extra time it takes to get them comfortable in that position in the first place. They are really pretty comfortable in the water when the skills begin. The second reason may be that all the basic skills are so very much easier to do in that position than on the knees. Regulator recovery is ridiculously easy in that position--the hardest part is discarding it in a way that keeps it from simply falling in front of you.

 

[tracydr]

When I'm an instructor, I'll teach with my students in a horizontal position.
In the meantime, it's probably best that I just do the skills the way my instructor likes them done. After our course,we can get into a discussion about the best way to teach the class.

 

[Scott]

I find the DMC's that do the exchange in small steps are in better control and perform better. Remove one fin, breath, loosen straps, breath, pass fin, breath, don fin, breath, adjust strap, breath. Next side, and repeat. BC is the same way.
Just remember your only limit is your gas supply, take your time, but make sure it is a full cylinder.