Help with floating to surface

[Living4Experiences]

I've had issues with this in the past and I've picked up a few tips from various dive professionals, and I agree with the other posters that you need to add weight.
For descending feet first:
1. Get in the water with a wet wetsuit and boots. If you can, use the onboard shower (if available) or take a dip in the ocean with your wetsuit and boots on. Wet gear helps you descend faster.
2. If the conditions are right, make a negative entry, so there's no air in your BCD when you jump in the water.
3. Breathe slow and shallow to start. The less air in your lungs, the easier it is to descend.
4. Don't fin kick on your way down. To help with this, cross your ankles.
5. Pull the collar of your wetsuit away from your neck in the front and use a back and forth motion with your hand to pump the water into your wetsuit. This method really works for me if I'm not able to start my dive already wet.

For ascending, you may want to start dumping air from your BCD earlier than you think to keep you from going up too fast. For me, at 25-30 feet is when I starting dumping a little bit of air. You will have to play with this to figure out what works for you. But you also don't want to keep using the inflator hose to keep adding air, then dumping again. You don't want to lose precious bottom time!

Good luck!

 

[TMHeimer]

I just want to point out that depending on the circumstance / potential for boat traffic this might be a very bad idea - swimming just beneath the surface is strongly recommended against since it's virtually impossible for a boat to see you before they hit you. If you MUST, then deploy your sausage. That said, surely there are situations (being very close to your dive boat) where those dangers are reduced to essentially 0.

Just wanted to throw it out there to take the off-topic temptation away from those with a penchant for the pedantic. I now return this thread to its originally intended topic.

Excellent point. My bad. I'm used to diving here, where I have yet to see any boats anywhere near the sites. Perhaps swimming close to the surface for practice may be best done in a pool for most.

 

[RRbbb]

The issue is obvious but if you are troubled by the idea of a heavier weight belt:
- get a stainless steel backplate (and wing) setup, with single tank adapter
- dive steel tanks

This will simplify your setup by integrating the weight into your rig, placing it in a much better spot. If you need a couple weights on top of that, they can just be cam band trim weights to perfect your trim and that's it.

Thank you for the advice! Yep, my goal is to eventually get a steel backplate setup. I'm pretty convinced that's the way to go. And I like the potential for customization because of how modular it is.
I tried a steel HP100 today with additional 2lbs and had no issues at all today descending (upright) or ascending to shore.

 

[RRbbb]

I've had issues with this in the past and I've picked up a few tips from various dive professionals, and I agree with the other posters that you need to add weight.
For descending feet first:
1. Get in the water with a wet wetsuit and boots. If you can, use the onboard shower (if available) or take a dip in the ocean with your wetsuit and boots on. Wet gear helps you descend faster.
2. If the conditions are right, make a negative entry, so there's no air in your BCD when you jump in the water.
3. Breathe slow and shallow to start. The less air in your lungs, the easier it is to descend.
4. Don't fin kick on your way down. To help with this, cross your ankles.
5. Pull the collar of your wetsuit away from your neck in the front and use a back and forth motion with your hand to pump the water into your wetsuit. This method really works for me if I'm not able to start my dive already wet.

For ascending, you may want to start dumping air from your BCD earlier than you think to keep you from going up too fast. For me, at 25-30 feet is when I starting dumping a little bit of air. You will have to play with this to figure out what works for you. But you also don't want to keep using the inflator hose to keep adding air, then dumping again. You don't want to lose precious bottom time!

Good luck!

Thank you for the response!
I never really thought about that, but thinking back..that is true it is always easier descending during the second/third dive.
Negative entry sounds scary! Will definitely need to do my research first.

 

[scubadada]

Thank you for the advice! Yep, my goal is to eventually get a steel backplate setup. I'm pretty convinced that's the way to go. And I like the potential for customization because of how modular it is.
I tried a steel HP100 today with additional 2lbs and had no issues at all today descending (upright) or ascending to shore.

Assuming you switched from an AL80 to the steel 100, this, alone, made you about 6 1/2 lbs heavier at the start of the dive and about 4 lbs heavier at the end. With the extra 2 lbs of weight, you were nearly 6 lbs heavier at the end of your dive. Did you do a buoyancy check at safety stop depth with an empty BC? This could give you a good idea of how much weight you would need if you went back to an AL80

 

[rx7diver]

Yep, my goal is to eventually get a steel backplate setup. I'm pretty convinced that's the way to go.

Well, for your single-tank diving, I think you would be much more satisfied with a stainless steel Freedom Plate (versus a steel back plate). No contest, in fact!

rx7diver

 

[Divectionist]

Well, for your single-tank diving, I think you would be much more satisfied with a stainless steel Freedom Plate (versus a steel back plate). No contest, in fact!

Quick question - I've seen what a freedom plate looks like, but how is it such a big difference?

I dive an X-Tek SS plate+STA and I can't really tell that it's on me at all, there is no discomfort anywhere.

If anything, I'd probably have to deal with cam band weight pockets to add the shaved off material back in on that smaller plate.

Curious to know what I am not considering though.

Cheers

 

[rx7diver]

Quick question - I've seen what a freedom plate looks like, but how is it such a big difference?

I dive an X-Tek SS plate+STA and I can't really tell that it's on me at all, there is no discomfort anywhere.

If anything, I'd probably have to deal with cam band weight pockets to add the shaved off material back in on that smaller plate.

Curious to know what I am not considering though.

Cheers

There are at least two main differences:

1. A "regular" plate (doubles plate) has a raised ridge down its center. With doubles, the cylinders sit on either side of this ridge. However, with a single cylinder, the cylinder either sits directly on top of this ridge, or sits on a U-shaped piece of angle iron (called a single-tank adapter, or STA) which itself sits directly on top of the ridge. In either case, the single cylinder sits either farther or much farther away from your back than with a Freedom Plate.

2. The Freedom Plate is shaped more form-fitting to a diver's back (i.e., more ergonomic).

3. (More.)

rx7diver

 

[RobPNW]

I'm considering a BP&W setup for myself and have a question about the air dumps. I see the different inflator elbow options out there and the arguments for an against. The one thing I'm kind of confused about is the typical dump valve on the lower part of the wings. Seems most I see are on the "inside" of the wing. IOW, if your horizontal under water, the valve would point down. What am I missing? That seems illogical. Wouldn't it be better for the valve to be pointing up? Thanks for any help. Also, if a person were to forgo the dump integrated with the inflator connection on the wing, are there any wings that offer a stand alone dump on the right shoulder similar to a lot of the "traditional" BCDS?

 

[mc42]

Wouldn't it be better for the valve to be pointing up? Thanks for any help. Also, if a person were to forgo the dump integrated with the inflator connection on the wing, are there any wings that offer a stand alone dump on the right shoulder similar to a lot of the "traditional" BCDS?

From a DIR point of view, I can see a couple of reasons:
1. The reason for it being inside is so you can reach and actively use the dump valve for releasing air, rather than it being a passive device, where I would agree, it could be on the outside of the wing to logically work better to dump, but would be hard to reach.

As you know, the BP/W setup encourages horizontal trim. Because you're horizontal, you are encouraged to use the dump valve to release air instead of using the hose deflator. This technique is much easier than having to break trim to tilt upwards to use the deflator. The wing wraps around the cylinder like a taco and the location of the dump valve will have it pointing sideways near the edge of the wing. You just need to reach back with your left hand and pull the dump valve string backwards/upwards (towards the surface) to release air. You stay much more horizontal this way.

You might occasionally need to roll the air slightly around the wing to get air into the dump valve area. You can do this with a slight roll from right to left to help move any air bubble around to the left side, and possibly add a slight head-down trim to get the air bubble into the dump valve area. It feels much more natural than having to deal with the inflator once you get used to it.

If you're diving with a drysuit, then you may be taught to just use the drysuit instead of BCD for buoyancy control, in which case the dump probably won't get used much. Agencies like GUE do stress the use of the dump valve for all types of diving.

2. in case of dump valve failure, you won't lose all your air and buoyancy control if the dump valve were up on the shoulder area. As long as you have remaining volume in the BCD to trap air, you can retain buoyancy control even with a bad valve. Any extra dump valves beyond just one move away from the philosophy of keeping things simple by creating additional failure points.