heard bad news while diving today

[fldiver1]

That is true, Walter, I nor anyone would have any rights to physically intervene. Although, it would be VERY hard for me not to. As far as actually "ripping" the mask off his head I would hope that it would've been resolved before that point. If the diver was already rigged up again, I would think the Capt. and DM at that point are not going to get anywhere with the diver. All I can say to the diver is "hope you get to feeling better soon, dumb*ss!!"

 

[Diver Dennis]

So what happens if the person cannot be restrained verbally and goes in against everyone's pleas and gets injured or dies? Is anyone liable?

 

[H2Andy]

If the diver is about to get in the water, the mask would have to be physically taken from the diver. Hard to imagine that taking place without touching the diver.

ah.. i just grab the mask and pull it. now i have it.

i didnt' have to touch you.

Especially if battery includes (which you did not answer) touching items the
person is wearing.

touching someone's purse, for example, is not a battery, nor is touching their laptop case.

grabbing someone's hat and removing it is not a battery

likewise, grabbing someone's mask without touching the person is not a battery.

 

[H2Andy]

So what happens if the person cannot be restrained verbally and goes in against everyone's pleas and gets injured or dies? Is anyone liable?

it would be most unlikley

where is the negligence here? in other words, what duty to that diver did you fail to carry out?

you don't have a duty to physically prevent people from possibly harming themselves, especially if you have warned them.

 

[Gary D.]

ah.. i just grab the mask and pull it. now i have it.

i didnt' have to touch you.




touching someone's purse, for example, is not a battery, nor is touching their laptop case.

grabbing someone's hat and removing it is not a battery

likewise, grabbing someone's mask without touching the person is not a battery.

That opens up a whole new area. Depending on where the items are it can very well be battery. It doesn’t have to be flesh on flesh, just the Unwanted Touching to become battery.

Again depending or the circumstances you could be arrested or charged with Robbery. Now that going before a jury would not be quite the relaxed attitude in court as lesser charges.

Gary D.

 

[SmokinReefer]

it would be most unlikley

where is the negligence here? in other words, what duty to that diver did you fail to carry out?

you don't have a duty to physically prevent people from possibly harming themselves, especially if you have warned them.

So after eleven pages of replies.....it seems it would be a hell of a lot easier to just let the diver go, with a stern warning (captured on video) of course, and (to paraphrase another post) let Darwin sort it out?

I think this falls into that jalapeno philosophy of life email currently making the rounds.

Smokin

 

[Gary D.]

Here are some Idaho definitions. They aren’t that different around the country but some do vary.

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 9
ASSAULT AND BATTERY
18-903. BATTERY DEFINED. A battery is any:
(a) Willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of
another; or
(b) Actual, intentional and unlawful touching or striking of another
person against the will of the other; or
(c) Unlawfully and intentionally causing bodily harm to an individual.


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 9
ASSAULT AND BATTERY
18-901. ASSAULT DEFINED. An assault is:
(a) An unlawful attempt, coupled with apparent ability, to commit a
violent injury on the person of another; or
(b) An intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the
person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some
act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence
is imminent.


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 9
ASSAULT AND BATTERY
18-905. AGGRAVATED ASSAULT DEFINED. An aggravated assault is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon or instrument without intent to kill; or
(b) By any means or force likely to produce great bodily harm.[; or]
(c) With any vitriol, corrosive acid, or a caustic chemical of any kind.
(d) "Deadly weapon or instrument" as used in this chapter is defined to
include any firearm, though unloaded or so defective that it can not be fired.


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 9
ASSAULT AND BATTERY
18-907. AGGRAVATED BATTERY DEFINED. (1) A person commits aggravated
battery who, in committing battery:
(a) Causes great bodily harm, permanent disability or permanent
disfigurement; or
(b) Uses a deadly weapon or instrument; or
(c) Uses any vitriol, corrosive acid, or a caustic chemical of any
nature; or
(d) Uses any poison or other noxious or destructive substance or liquid;
or
(e) Upon the person of a pregnant female, causes great bodily harm,
permanent disability or permanent disfigurement to an embryo or fetus.
(2) For purposes of this section the terms "embryo" or "fetus" shall mean
any human in utero.
(3) There shall be no prosecution under subsection (1)(e) of this
section:
(a) Of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the
consent of the pregnant female, or person authorized by law to act on her
behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law.
(b) Of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant female or her
embryo or fetus; or
(c) Of any female with respect to her embryo or fetus.
(4) Nothing in this chapter is intended to amend or nullify the
provisions of chapter 6, title 18, Idaho Code.

Gary D.

 

[H2Andy]

That opens up a whole new area. Depending on where the items are it can very well be battery.

guys, we can parse this all we want

if there is no unconsented touching, there is no battery

i can see certain circumstances where touching someone's apparel may be a battery.

under the facts described here (a diver with a mask), removing the item (the mask) is most likely not a battery, just like snatching a baseball cap from someone's head is most likely not a battery.

 

[Dive-aholic]

This is why when I get on a dive boat, I only present my OW card and no others. I have heard that if presenting rescue or DM or ? that you are then responsible to some extent because of your training. Is this true?

Sorry, but that doesn't release you from any liability. You're still a DM and expected to act accordingly. When you go to court to testify because they got your name from the boat roster and saw you were there, they will ask you what your certification level is. Are you going to lie at that point?

 

[fldiver1]

Well then this opens another point doesnt it. If I am responsible and expected to act accordingly on a dive boat even if I don't tell them my highest cert. level. Wouldnt I then be responsible to keep another diver from injuring himself by doing a potentially harmful profile. Guys, don't attack me here. I am just asking for my own knowledge. I am not the original poster of this topic, I am not the dumb*ss who the post was about, and I am not the DM or Capt. of the boat he was on. I just want to know what can and cannot, should or shouldn't be done in a situation like this.