heard bad news while diving today

[H2Andy]

Wouldnt I then be responsible to keep another diver from injuring himself by doing a potentially harmful profile.

you would be responsible for acting as a reasonable person would under the circumstances.

what would a reasonable person do?

probably tell the guy "that's a dangerous profile; you can get hurt doing that dive."

that's about the most you can do, and then bring in whatever verbal authority you have over the guy

if you are his buddy, you can say "i'm not diving that profile; it's unsafe and you're gonna get hurt" if he insists, don't dive with him.

if you are a DM and the guy is under your care, then you tell him he can't dive that profile with you and refuse to dive with him if he insists.

if you are an Instructor, you do the same and order the guy not to do the profile or you will flunk him or whatever dire consequences you can muster.

bottom line is, you can't stop him if he decides to do it anyway.

you are not a peace officer. you do not have arrest powers. you do not have the authority to lay your hands on someone to restrain them unless in self defense or the defense of others. short of saving someone from committing suicide (such as pushing somoene off a railroad track where they are standing waiting for an incoming train to hit them), you really can't do much when someone else decides to go in harm's way and do something dangerous. you could probably be justified in stopping a drunk from driving, since other lives may be endangered.

all of this is "ifs." you really need to start with a set of facts and then analyze them.

 

[fldiver1]

I have an idea!! how about I just don't get on a boat "that" guy is on?! JK Ok, on to the next topic.

 

[Diver Dennis]

you would be responsible for acting as a reasonable person would under the circumstances.

what would a reasonable person do?

probably tell the guy "that's a dangerous profile; you can get hurt doing that dive."

that's about the most you can do, and then bring in whatever verbal authority you have over the guy

if you are his buddy, you can say "i'm not diving that profile; it's unsafe and you're gonna get hurt" if he insists, don't dive with him.

if you are a DM and the guy is under your care, then you tell him he can't dive that profile with you and refuse to dive with him if he insists.

if you are an Instructor, you do the same and order the guy not to do the profile or you will flunk him or whatever dire consequences you can muster.

bottom line is, you can't stop him if he decides to do it anyway.

you are not a peace officer. you do not have arrest powers. you do not have the authority to lay your hands on someone to restrain them unless in self defense or the defense of others. short of saving someone from committing suicide (such as pushing somoene off a railroad track where they are standing waiting for an incoming train to hit them), you really can't do much when someone else decides to go in harm's way and do something dangerous. you could probably be justified in stopping a drunk from driving, since other lives may be endangered.

all of this is "ifs." you really need to start with a set of facts and then analyze them.

That answers it for me, thanks Andy.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Save us all from people who want to save us from ourselves.

Amen! brother, Amen!
Rick

 

[sweenz]

so, has anyone heard what the details might be?

 

[IceIce]

Can the captain say," It's dangerous because..... If you still insist to go down I would have to reject you getting back in my boat."

Or, cancel the trip and bring everyone back to the shore if the guy insist? Nobody gets to dive. In that way, he might think of the consequences of his action to other people.

To see that another side, if the captain/DM/Instructor let the diver go, and he comes back with injury or death. The diver/family would be able to sue the captain/DM/Instructor back because they didn't try to stop him?

Just my curiosity in this weird world.
In my ideal world, I think it's okay to beat him with fins or tie him to prevent him from going down.

 

[scuba66]

wonder what was down there that interested him that much that he had to go back and see?

 

[ItsBruce]

Well, this has turned into a "tough one to answer" then. Where I think the mask-tossing or hose cutting to prevent that person from another dive might be a good idea, I now see that it could be more legal trouble than it's worth. But here is another question, wouldnt the diver in question have a VERY hard time proving assault or in the case of cutting the hose even "attempted murder" when you have witnesses on your side testifying that you were trying to prevent his own bodily harm????? This is why when I get on a dive boat, I only present my OW card and no others. I have heard that if presenting rescue or DM or ? that you are then responsible to some extent because of your training. Is this true?

I believe either you heard wrong or what you heard was wrong. What card you show does not change your duty. Moreover, if you try to set a lower degree of duty by hiding your true level of training and you are found out (as would be the case in the event of a lawsuit), you will be in a lot worse shape. The good news, is that in most places, you generally won't have a duty in the first instance. Basically, unless you (1) by word or deed assume a duty or (2) increase the risk of harm, you can sit and watch someone drown without civil liability. (I did a big article and submitted to SB last year, but it does not seem to have been posted yet. ... I'll get on Pete about it.)

BTW: What I said is subject to all the usual disclaimers. For those who are interested, check with a lawyer in your own jurisdiction as the may differ from place to place.

 

[ItsBruce]

That answers it for me, thanks Andy.

I respectfully disagree with Andy. Before considering what a reasonable person with comparable training and experience would do under the circumstances, one must look at whether the particular jurisdiction recognizes a duty in the first instance. Most jurisdictions say something to the effect that unless you created the situation or, by word or deed, undertook a duty to act, you have none. IMHO, even a DM who is not acting as a DM, but is on a personal dive (what I call "just along for the ride") has no duty (in most places) to prevent an unsafe dive or to rescue someone who is in trouble. If you are the DM for the particular dive, you may have a duty. If you encouraged the idiot to do the dive or told him it was a safe profile, you may have a duty. If you sit there and keep your mouth shut, you probably have no duty. In fact, I seem to recall the California Supreme Court saying that a swimmer on sore had no duty to come to the aid of one who is drowning.

 

[fabasard]

To be honest with you, this sounds a LOT like the divers in South America that do lobstering and things like that. While on vacation we saw a diver coming in on a boat and he was bent. He had made REPEATED drops to the same level without a SI all for lobstering. The diver in quesiton, may have been a local just lobstering or some other thing which required him to stay below for extended periods. I cannot say what the guy was doing or why he was doing it, but YES, he is obviously stupid. To dive a plan like that is a surefire way to get bent. I really don't feel for him, because I believe Darwin gets all that is due him, and if your stupid, Darwins gonna get you.